Stuffing box questions....

[J's Dream]

I have spent the past four hours reading prior posts on this subject, and I still have some questions. I am planning on hauling out in a few weeks, and have some issues to address with the stuffing boxes. My port stuffing box is constantly leaking, at a steady rate, and to tighten the nuts anymore is extremely hard to do. I don't want to risk forcing them at this point while in the water. So, my questions are as follows:

1. Once out of the water, since my stuffing box is green with crud, I want to remove the box, bolts, everything and clean in some way. Is there something safe to soak it in? Or maybe blast it with some type of media?

2. Is there a trick to separating the shaft from the gear?

3. Replace or reuse bolts to join shaft and gear?

4. Is this a project I should attempt on my own? I have tackled a whole lot of projects on the boat, but I have no knowledge at all on this subject.

5. Does the alignment need to be done in the water at the marina right after haulout? Or is ot OK to run the boat home to my dock 15 miles away?

6. What will tell me if a cutlass bearing (or two) is in need of replacement? (Please explain it as though I am new here) And is this something I may be capable of on my own?

7. Anything I need to know about new shaft hose? I read to NOT use wire-reinforced hose. How about the best clamps???

More questions to come......

Thanks, Jason

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Hey J... PM'd ya ws

 

[Will]

Maybe your packing is leaking because you need to add another packing ring or the packing needs to be replaced. Other causes could be a damaged or worn shaft area in the packing gland. I recently had a similar problem with leaking packing which turned out to be caused by a loose shaft coupling. The shaft moved forward and backward about an 1/8 of an inch when I shifted from forward to reverse preventing the packing from sealing properly.

However, if you need to pull everything apart, don't reuse bolts hoses, packing, etc. to save a few bucks. Parts are cheap compared to labor and haul out costs.

Usually, there are two parts involved with the stuffing box. The Shaft log which is bolted to the hull and the packing gland which has the packing and packing nut. Both parts can be cleaned by wire brushing. The two are connected to each other with a special, pre-cut hose. I'd not use any other type of hose for this. You should replace the packing with Gortex GFO which is highly rated by members of this forum.

The shaft and engine couplings should be easily separated after removing the bolts. The shaft coupling is probably held on by a single castle nut and cotter pin. The nut should be really tight and will be hard to break loose. You might need a gear puller to pull the coupling off of the shaft. When reinstalling the coupling, be sure to torque the nut to specifications. If necessary to adjust the nut to align the cotter pin holes, be sure to tighten and not loosen the nut.

IF your alignment is close to begin with, you are probably safe running at slow speeds for a while before doing a re-alignment. Alignments must always be done with the boat in the water.
Will

 

[REBrueckner]

If you can't move the shaft at the cutlass bearing(s) by hand (by yanking from side to side) when hauled out, that is, the cutlass holds the shaft firmly in place, then unless you have some vibration when underway all is likely ok. And if you have vibration it can be other sources. Unless you have reason to doubt your shaft log, likely its just fine but has some superifical salt water oxidation on the surface....green surface oxidation....If it's pitted and shiny, that's real corrosion....and should be corrected....any mild acid, rinsed with water, should do it...maybe even lemon juice....somebody posted a suggested solution last year or so , but I don't recall.

It all likely hood, once you are hauled and can pull the old packing out and replace as noted above with gortex you'll be ok. In fact if all you are doing is replacing it, it can be done in the water...but can be scary when water pours in for a few minutes...think of it as a free bilge rinse....

Your packing nut may be hard to turn because the packing is rock hard(old) or because its worn/gone pushed out and you are at the end of the threads or maybe the threads are corroded....always a good idea to back it off, inspect threads, wire brush nearby threads, add some grease and retighten...

If your post implies you think you need to relaign the engine because the shaft log leaks, likely that's not the case...unless you have other symptoms....you'd have some vibration. Nor does repacking the packing gland require realignment. Leave it a bit loose and sung up the packing nut after launch. If you shaft is worn from previous overtightening or overheating it's possible the shaft is scarred/irregular and that may be contributing to the leak.

Good luck...the worst part of this job is (as usual on a boat) is the lack of working space and likely tight access...

 

[Nonchalant1]

I don't see any reason to take the whole thing apart if all you're correcting is leaking and "green stuff". You can take the gland apart, wire brush it in place first with 409 household cleaner, repack with GFO (I think it's made by Gore, Inc. that makes GoreTex). Search other threads for "GFO" to see special precautions on tightening gradually as you run it in. A few of us, myself included have tightened it too much the first time or two and overheated it, which then requires repacking to really get the benefits of GFO, like 10 years with no worries.

If your old shaft log hose is bad or you have other problems, maybe that would be a reason to do the big job, but not for leaks and growth.

The best clamps for shaft log hoses are T-bolt clamps. They have a much more even clamping action and can clamp much tighter than the worm gear type. The only issue is that they have a limited size range, so you have to measure exactly what size you need and buy the clamps specifically for that size range. Truck stops and good marine repair places have T-bolt clamps in stock. Always use two clamps on each end of the hose, which is 4 clamps on about a 6 inch hose. If you overtighten a worm gear type, it can break and that's in a "sink the boat" location if the shaft log hose breaks loose.

Doug Shuman

 

[J's Dream]

Will, Rob, and Doug...thanks for all the great info. I am pulling everything apart because the hoses are both old and cracking. I figure, while I'm in there...I should take care of everything so I don't have to do this again in the near future. I won't know if a cutlass bearing is bad until the boat's on the hard.

OK, my notes so far:

>GFO packing
>T clamps on the hoses
>ALL new bolts, hoses, packing, clamps, etc.
>Wire brush all crap off the bronze

I'm all ears! Thanks,

Jason

 

[Brian Degulis]

Drop the bronze stuff in muriatic acid like new in less than a minute.

Brian

 

[yachtsmanbill]

So whats the consensus on the mounting hose to use. My old stuff has carbon steel wire in it and its a gonner. I want to change it needless to say. On my gas boat I used 3" suction hose for a gas pump that is similar to the 1-1/2" sanitary hose but orange. Its wound with some kind of 1/8" high tech plastic wire.
Tough stuff. Had to warm it to get the "coiledness" out of it.
I used T bolt clamps on it 20+ years ago and it still looks like new.
Feedback? Ideas? Comments? ws

 

[Fanfare]

A few years ago I ordered dripless shaft seals from Tidesmarine <www.tidesmarine.com> The hose they came with was blue silicone, just as I have had on my exhausts for the last 12 years or so. I have inspected my exhaust hoses and they look as good as new, inside and out. I don't remember if the shaft hose was wire-wound, but I bet Tidesmarine can tell you.

I went dripless because I couldn't get my starboard shaft to stop leaking, and believe me I tried everything. These seals have been great. One major reason I changed to them is that Hatteras now puts them on as standard. They have a water lubricated rubber seal like an O-ring that bears upon the shaft, which seemed a little scary at first. However, each shaft has two spare seals in a protective carrier mounted ahead of the seal assembly and in about 20 minutes I can replace one. Just be sure to get the seals and carrier installed while the shafts are pulled as they go over the end of the pulled shaft. So far however, the originals are fine and have needed no service. And they don't leak. I think this is about my fifth year on them.

I would give some thought to the silicone hose, and also to the dripless seals. I did not get the PSS ones with the stainless surface rubbing against the carbon seal because I couldn't change the seal in the water if it failed.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Thanks for the link Jim! I will contact them about the hose which is about $80/per side. I need to know if its compatible with the OEM stuffing boxes. I would really like to go with the GFO packing as emergency repairs underway are a little more practical. Ive already pulled the tapered coupling off the 2" shaft and couldnt imagine doing it again for any unforeseen reason.
I spent 30 years in a power plant as a Mtce engineer and have surely had my share of experience with packings and then the advent of mechanical seals. They are absolutely great as long as they remain undisturbed and are provided with continuous cooling water. With the good old packing, adding another ring may provide you with a little "get home insurance".
I am glad that youve had such good experience with the seals and hope you continue for many more years. I guess at this point its a matter of druthers.
I do like their articulated hose though... ! ws

 

[mike]

FWIW, these guys www.buckalgonquin.com sell the 8 to 10 ply (forgot exact #) wireless log hose that was orig on the Hatts. Its best to use wireless as it is more flexable and will follow the logs movement vs leading it.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Hey Mike ! Progressing a little slower because of today but tomorrow, we hit it again !! Do you remember what that hose size was on yours? I am guessing at
3 or 3-1/2" but I will measure mine in the a.m.
Strainer parts procurement are almost complete as is space allocation for them. Still need to devise a way to mount them. The 2500 strainers dont have mounting ears. It was strictly a pipe mount ;-( Just another little thing to design, make, and mount X 2 !! ws

 

[mike]

Bill, the stuffing box hose Id on mine is 3-1/2"; your sure making great progress....pls post pics of the H2O filters once you get them mounted. cheers, mike

 

[BUSTER]

Thanks for the link Jim! I will contact them about the hose which is about $80/per side. I need to know if its compatible with the OEM stuffing boxes. I would really like to go with the GFO packing as emergency repairs underway are a little more practical. Ive already pulled the tapered coupling off the 2" shaft and couldnt imagine doing it again for any unforeseen reason.
I spent 30 years in a power plant as a Mtce engineer and have surely had my share of experience with packings and then the advent of mechanical seals. They are absolutely great as long as they remain undisturbed and are provided with continuous cooling water. With the good old packing, adding another ring may provide you with a little "get home insurance".
I am glad that youve had such good experience with the seals and hope you continue for many more years. I guess at this point its a matter of druthers.
I do like their articulated hose though... ! ws

I have had a couple of bad experiences on other peoples yachts with dripless water lubricated shaft seals and as you said if no one steps or leans on them accidently,or if the set screws stay set,they are generally pretty good.Personally If the gland is adjusted right and the jamnut is tight,I don't mind a drop of water now and then.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Mine are even easier to adjust with two studs... each one has two 15/16" nuts. Ones a jamb and the other is the adjuster. Usually 1-2 flats on the nut is enough for total control. I dont mind them leaking underway and when shut down for the evening they are usually dry.
I would like to rig a NON OBNOXIOUS audio alarm to the system so that when the pumps come on dockside I can hear rather than have to notice the light on the dash. Thats for MOPIGAR (my own personal info gathering anal retentiveness). Perhaps a seat belt ding-ding alarm? Usually two cycles and I can ring the engineer, "finished with pumps". ws