STILL water in STBD ER

[holtcl]

After a recent BOATT type of yard bill, I'm still finding salt water in the STBD ER. I'm consoling myself by saying that yes the work had to be done at some point, but damn.

I think the water intrusion is exacerbated by running the boat.

I also notice that I'm missing both of those "leathery flaps" that cover the "sea chest outlets" (what are those called?) on the port side of the boat near the water line.

Could water intrude into there when underway? I find it hard to believe those little flaps would be enough to keep water out. But it was a pretty rough day yesterday and water was sloshing around everywhere. Just continuing to scratch my head on this one.

Where the heck is the water coming from?


Cheryl
Cinderella
1971 53 MY

 

[oscarvan]

This may or may not work for you, but I have in the past found where the water was coming from by laying a circle of talcum powder around the accumulation, high enough so the puddle doesn't slosh it. Wherever the "breach in the dam" is...... follow the trail.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Sam's used to sell the rubber material that makes those little flaps that cover the sea chest outlets. Kind of a white dull-finish rubber.

As to where the water is coming from... is it salt or fresh? You may have posted about this, but I've forgotten.

 

[bigbill]

when i was on the yard i called steve to buy 5 new rubber flaps and he said that hatteras never used a flap on the hullside that as long back as he can remember they used a 4 inch clam shell. he said original clamshell were made of fiberglass but at some point they went to plastic. i ordered 5 and put them on my boat. every hatteras i have seen since then has clamshells not flaps

 

[jim rosenthal]

Maybe the sea chest outlets on the 36C are smaller? I bought a roll of that white rubber material that was on the boat when I bought it. About 3" wide or less. There is a little metal piece that holds it on, and some screws threaded through the metal piece and the rubber. It lasts a LONG time, I have not had to replace them often. The outlets higher up on my boat do have fiberglass clamshells on them, right.

 

[MikeP]

I can't see how water could enter the ER via the sea chest outlet since the sea chest outlet is slightly above water level and the sea chest itself is further above water level. Also the chest is not "open" into the engine room unless some of the various hoses are broken/disconnected. If the clamshell was incorrectly mounted and the opening faced forward, water might be forced into the chest while under way if the clamshell dipped into the water as the boat rolled slightly. In that case, I suppose water could be forced backwards in the hoses and since one of them is the bilge pump hose, water could be forced into that hose and into the bilge through the bilge pump. Seems an unlikely thing to me but it's possible I guess.

I assume you've checked the stuffing boxes, the engine seacock strainer lid, and any other through hulls in that ER for seepage. How about the exhaust collectors/fittings? The metal collectors can start to seep at their joints as they get old and the collectors have raw water in them all the time, not just when the engines are running. Is the air conditioner water manifold/hoses/pump in that ER? The pump/seacock/strainer could be leaking or there could be a break in one of the feed hoses to the AC units. Of course, a broken/leaking AC hose would be expected to leak only if the system was operating.

 

[Glory]

agree with Mike, also when under way I think due to the bow wave the surface of the water is even further away from the engine room sea chest discharge opening.

I don't know what year the aft facing discharge started, I'm quite sure the '68 and earlier 50 MYs didn't have them. I have seen several Hats with flaps over the hull discharges, I doubt the flap could prevent water from passing, the rise in board is the defense of water getting in.

JM

 

[holtcl]

Thanks everyone for your helpful thoughts. I think I've ruled out the "usual suspects" such as shaft and rudder packing. I just had new seacocks installed and strainers rebuilt and I don't think it's coming from there. Rudders were just repacked.

Which is leading me look more carefully at the bilge pump system- broken hose? Or in the exhaust system. I've been studying past posts about this and have been going over systems one by one. I also tried the thing with the talc powder and so far no luck on that but it's hard to trace when the water pools under the engine.

I also realize during this process that I know very little about the riser system and I need to get up to speed on that.

Cheryl
Cinderella
1971 53 MY

 

[krush]

get some food coloring or dye and work your way upstream.

 

[bobk]

Did you check coolant pipes for a pin hole leak? They seem to be a copper alloy on 6V92's and often get perforations.

Bobk

 

[rsmith]

The fact that it happens while running is probably engine related. I lay out blue shop towels under sinks and plumbing work after repairs to catch that slow drip

 

[holtcl]

These are all great leads. I "think" it's exacerbated by running though I am not completely sure. I cleared the water yesterday and now that I'm about done running for the season that will give me some indication. I will try the dye and also replace the oil absorb pads to see if I can catch it in the act…

Cheryl

 

[MikeP]

C,

I know you said it is salt water and I know you know what you're doing so I guess I shouldn't ask, "are you sure?" but I will. Are you SURE it's salt water? How did you determine that it is salt water?

One thing that can cause confusion is that the bilge may be "salty" from previous salt water being in there which can then make fresh water from some internal source "salty."

Have you checked all the appropriate engine/exhaust fittings in the RW system?

Do the bilges normally stay dry or is there the common dripping from the stuffing boxes with standard flax packing? IOW, is it possible that what you are seeing is just water that would come from packing in that ER stuffing box that is not as tight as it could be? There would be more water coming in while cruising than when stationery. Have you or somebody else observed the boxes/dripping while the boat is cruising?

 

[SEVEN]

I had a nagging water leak that took months to find. It turned out to be the hot water heater. It was leaking about a half gallon a day. The leak was behind the tank and the water ran down a wall. No noise, no drips. Once replaced I am bone dry even under way. Good luck.

 

[holtcl]

Wow- hot water heater! Will check that too.

Mike- you raise some good points. I've tasted a good bit of this stuff and it's pretty salty. I do agree fithere must be a good bit of "residual" salt in the bilges to make fresh water seem salt-like. But the bilges were just painted. But then the water may be coming from somewhere other than the freshly painted ER bilges. So it gets complicated.

Though these days I've been running solo, I try to keep a decent watch in the ERs when underway. My shaft logs never did drip much since the yard replaced the packing a couple of years ago. So even underway I really don't think it's coming from there. I've been watching that.

I'm now having a problem where upon installing the new RW seacocks for the mains, the strainers didn't get supported well enough and one of the strainers moved from its position. This caused air to get into that system on port main such that the impeller will not pick up water at low RPM. So, maybe some water came in when I ran it last time under this condition (?).

Maybe the previous water water leak was fixed and some NEW water came in when that strainer got out of whack.

Following all this? I'm starting to feel like whack-a-mole. I suppose it was time for some fun. Right now my plan is to do a sea trial after the yard re-anchors the strainers and see what happens.

Cheryl
Cinderella
1971 53 MY

 

[carolinacoast]

Good advice here as always. I just had this one on the front of the engine.

it was on the raw water side of a pipe off the heat exchanger up high, and the copper had corroded from the inside and the pinhole was on the male end inside the hose and hose clamp. I did not find it, and I tried everything I knew to try. A very good yard guy studied with a magnifying glass, and found traces of salt on the white riser, then blue paper towels right there, fired it up and there you go.

I ended up buying a new elbow, and it was not an expensive fix.

stressful though. good luck.

 

[holtcl]

Another very good thought- I am inclined to take a more careful look at the exhaust system and this will provide an opportunity to get more acquainted with it, which I need to do anyway.

Cheryl

 

[MikeP]

The pinhole leaks can be quite difficult to see/locate. I had an engine oil line develop a pinhole leak years ago and I could not actually see the leak at all. It looked like magic because the oil jet was invisible to the eye as it exited the line and the oil just seemed to "appear" on a panel about 18" away. I literally had no idea what was going on until, in feeling the panel, I felt the oil jet hitting the back of my hand.

 

[holtcl]

I'm making slow progress on trying to track down the source of the water coming in. Every time I'm at the boat puttering around I take some time to poke around the ER and look for the leak or a slow drip.

There is still what I believe to be new salt water accumulating and I haven't run the boat in a couple of weeks now so I think the water coming in may NOT be exacerbated by running the boat.

It's coming in at about a rate of a couple buckets full per week - roughly. Doesn't appear to be enough to trigger the bilge pump.

When I was on the boat recently I found a water drip from one of those holes that goes between the stringers (am I using that term correctly?) - the hole allows water to flow from one area of the bilge to another. The hole was located aft and outboard of the STBD engine and this particular hole faces side/side (as opposed to fore/aft). The elusive drip was so slow that sitting there watching it I could not actually see it dripping, so I stuck a napkin in the hole and went away. Came back 2 days later and the napkin was wet.

So I figure the water is coming through that hole. Next step is to figure out what lies behind the hole!

Slow progress but I hope I'm narrowing it down...

Cheryl
Cinderella
1971 53 MY

 

[MikeP]

If the setup is similar to ours, AND, if I'm correctly visualizing from your description, isn't there a RW intake/waste pump for the guest head in that area? Any chance you could take a pic of the hole and general area and post it?