starting problem on gasser

[captddis]

Maybe I misunderstood. If the cam AND the plate turns then no it is not the cam slipping on the plate. Is the plate seated with the flyweights in the slots?
It is possible the retainer came off and the plate lifted up off the weights.
If eveything is in place, then yes pull the dist. Dave

 

[UNIQUE_NAME]

i guess the plate could have lifted. i can see the screws in the plate as i rotate it and they appear tight. are they screwed into the weights below?

jim

 

[yachtsmanbill]

The F engines were flywheel aft. the plain 283H or M was flywheel fwd as were the Q engines.
The problem is the dist plate. the cam is slipping on the plate!!!! I have fixed dozens of these. Don't look for complicated problems that are not there. The 427 Ford had steel timing gears and a double chain.

Hey Dave, there has been a whole lot of water under that dam since I crossed it, but gulp, yer right!! I had the Ms and the flywheel was on the forward (boat) end of the engine. I know CC and Roamer did this to gain clearance between the FW and the bottom, and also to help keep the center of gravity lower. (Like 2 inches really matters). The 454s went in FW aft and I actually had to cut an inch out of the stringers to get them low enough to line up.
As far as Jims situation is concerned, I got confused as well. The advance weights AND points (or reluctor) cam should come out as an assembly and the points (or module plate) should be stationary with the distributor frame, No??
As far as the timing gears are concerned, when I added that I was un aware of the big bad Ford motors. Shittily rebuilt stuff can come with plastic gears as in JASPER engines etc. Just mho. When you headin' north ?? ws

 

[captddis]

Hi Bill,
Yea after I typed that about the gears , it dawned on me that maybe Bubba[not bird] was in there and used some discount auto stuff.
I am flying to TX on the 4th and will head out the 5th. I will keep in touch. Hope to meet up with you and Randy.
Hope the high water does not cause any problems. Dave

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Hey Dave...
The Calumet River and Chicago Sanitary and Ship canal (Lockport Pool,lock controlled) is almost down to normal; maybe 6-8 inches to go. The local natural rivers are still extremely high! That'll all run down hill as you know. By the 5th, it should have normalized. Keep in touch ! ws

 

[MikeP]

GEEZ! Glad somebody is paying attention! When I wrote the bit previously, including the firing order, I TOTALLY ignored (forgot) the fact that one of those Crusaders is probably a reverse rotation engine. If you are working on the reverse rotation engine and set it up with the firing order I specified, 18436572, it won't work. The reverse firing order is Ta DA...the REVERSE of the normal firing order - 12756348.

If in any doubt as to the proper rotation, just crank the eng. A normal rotation engine is Clockwise AS YOU FACE THE FRONT OF THE ENGINE (sitting/standing in front of the engine, looking at the harmonic balancer). THe reverse rotation engine is counter clockwise from this same position.

Wire up the dist plug leads appropriately for the direction of rotation; the method for setting the timing is the same as described previously regardless.

Sorry for totally forgetting this initially.

 

[UNIQUE_NAME]

ok. dist is out. drum roll.... gear pinion is sheared.
interesting thing is it looks like it had backed itself out until it cleared one side of the gear before it sheared. in other words, the combined length of the piece left in the shaft and the piece in and sticking out of one side of the
gear is equal to what would have been the length from gear outside to gear outside. also, the gear side that has none of the pin in it appears slightly larger than the other gear hole. any thoughts?

thanks.
jim

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Found On the Ramp Dead ??
Reassemble it and drill for an oversized pin. They come in .016 increments. (64ths) I would use a pin that is made from coiled spring steel instead of a split one. Youll probably need to press that type in with a vise as the are an SOG to get in with percussion. If the gear looks good and the unit spins easy you should be good to go...
That pin could have died from old age, BUT, I would take a long screw driver and spin the oil pump... make sure its smooth. Better yet, if you get an old distributor or just the shaft, SANS GEAR, put it in a drill and spin it and check the oil pressure. The complete dist body and shaft will aid in aligning to drill spin the pump. ws

 

[UNIQUE_NAME]

Fix Or Repair Daily

the 427 is a great workhorse engine, just quirky. although the chris craft engineer that designed the front motor mounts and screwball circulating pump should be keelhauled.
the current pin appears to be of the split variety. i do have and old dist shell with no gear. do i need to check for pressure if the pump turns easily?

jim

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Forked on a raw deal--
Its just another small step for man. The gauge will give you 100% satisfaction that all is good. You can even put a temp. mech. gauge on the block and not need two people or even turn the key on. Yer there; why not? ws

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Does that 427 have the dual water pumps; one on each manifold? ws

 

[dreamweaver66]

Do a compression test poss a stuck valve. The valve prob is stuck in the guide.

 

[UNIQUE_NAME]

Does that 427 have the dual water pumps; one on each manifold? ws

no, standard sherwood sw for exchanger and screwball compression pully on the circulating pump.

 

[Trojan]

You can put the gear back on with red loc tight and use a new roll pin. Or better yet, buy a new distributor. For the roll pin to work out. The gear had to be moving on the shaft. I would not trust it


BILL

 

[UNIQUE_NAME]

i had the hole drilled oversized and new pin installed, tested the pump with a drill (like bill suggested) oil pressure went right up. put the dist in and still no spark from coil wire, althought the rotor is now spinning like it should. new coil, new pertronix module and trigger and have tried multiple coil wires include the stb engine one. i have 12.6v to the coil even when cranking, bypassed the ext resistor and ran a direct line to the coil just to make sure.
i came across another thing i couldn't figure out. (i think i've gotten a years worth in the last 2 weeks) 2 wires off the "-" coil, 1 is the pertronix the other i pegged as a ground. but, with both wires connected to coil and 12.6v going to the coil i read 0v across the coil. if i disconnect the ? wire from the coil and meter coilk + and the disconnected wire i get 12.6v. if i run jumper from ground to coil - i read the 12.6v. cranking the engine in any of these cases produces no spark. it was at this point i walked away and went home to clear my head.
help me, i've fallen and i can't get up....
jim

 

[UNIQUE_NAME]

thought i'ld post a followup on my results. the motor is back up and running. unfortunatly, i can't say for sure what caused the original failure. this is because after replacing the dist gear pin and all other ignition components i still had no spark. this turned out to be a stupid owner trick. when i re-installed the dist i left it a little loose to time it once i got it started. i'm guessing by leaving it loose i didn't push it hard enough to make good ground with the block. after many verbal assaults directed at the engine, i finally really leaned on the cap and voila, got my spark. engine started right up, timed and sounded great. figured problems were in the past. next time out, i'm 10 minutes from the slip and idling around 1000 rpms and the bridge tach starts dropping 100 - 200 rpms erratically. i run to the lower station to verify on the cable tachs, same readings. back to the slip i go. it seems when i really leaned on the cap i had shifted the key side off the base just a little. once i seated the cap properly tach jumps were eliminated.
this got me to wondering about the spring clips on the dist. how can you tell if they are holding the cap tight enough? it's not a real stretch to see over time how they loose their ability to hold the cap down. are they normal maintenance items?
one last thing, for those of you running the 427's, what is you're normal cruising rpm?

thanks,

jim

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Those dang gassers !! You would figure that with the clamp and gears you would always have a ground, but then NADA. I would put a dedicated ground wire to the distributor frame. Its kinda like the old GM cars that has a braided ground strap from the firewall to the heads. All that other stuff under the hood and you could end up without a ground (motor mounts, starters. alternators etc). I still prefer the HEI that I put in my gas boat!
It always K-MART CAPS ON SUNDAY IN ESCANABA !! ws

 

[smoothmove]

one last thing, for those of you running the 427's, what is you're normal cruising rpm?

thanks,

jim

Funny you should mention that because I spent a couple of hours yesterday trying to decide for myself.
The owners manual recommends a cruising speed "not in excess of 3600 rpm" Our 38' DCMY is a pretty heavy girl and it needs a bit of power to keep it handling correctly. I decided 3000 to 3100 gives OK results.
Here are the consumption figures from Chris Craft for the 427. Actual results may vary.

2200 RPM 8.3 GPH x 2 = 16.6 GPH

2400 RPM 9.3 GPH x 2 = 18.6 GPH

2600 RPM 10.5 GPH X 2 = 21.0 GPH

2800 RPM 12.O GPH X 2 = 24.0 GPH

3000 RPM 14.9 GPH X 2 = 29.8 GPH

3200 RPM 16.6 GPH X 2 = 33.2 GPH

3400 RPM 18.1 GPH X 2 = 36.2 GPH

3600 RPM 19.4 GPH X 2 = 38.8 GPH

By the way, using a 31 gal/hr figure I'm getting about .45m/gallon at 14 miles/hour. Thirsty, but on a beautiful day like yesterday was, who cares?
Eric

 

[yachtsmanbill]

All I can compare is with my 14,000 # aluminum Roamer with 330 mercs w/2.57 Warners, I usually cruise at 2900 @ 21 mph and run 100 miles on 125 - 135 gallons of gas. Thqats about .08 mpg or 25 gph.
On a sunny breezy day on the lake who cares. Guys I worked with used to harrass me about vacation costs for a two week trip. "Five grand??? YOURE NUTS !" as they would be flying off to LOST WAGES only to come home BROKE on a prepayed plane ticket... Cheap insurance I'd tell 'em! At least Ive got pictures and memories... ws

 

[UNIQUE_NAME]

I decided 3000 to 3100 gives OK results.
Here are the consumption figures from Chris Craft for the 427. Actual results may vary.

2200 RPM 8.3 GPH x 2 = 16.6 GPH

2400 RPM 9.3 GPH x 2 = 18.6 GPH

2600 RPM 10.5 GPH X 2 = 21.0 GPH

2800 RPM 12.O GPH X 2 = 24.0 GPH

3000 RPM 14.9 GPH X 2 = 29.8 GPH

3200 RPM 16.6 GPH X 2 = 33.2 GPH

3400 RPM 18.1 GPH X 2 = 36.2 GPH

3600 RPM 19.4 GPH X 2 = 38.8 GPH

By the way, using a 31 gal/hr figure I'm getting about .45m/gallon at 14 miles/hour. Thirsty, but on a beautiful day like yesterday was, who cares?
Eric

eric,

i hear you with the "33000lbs heavy girl" part. we seem to be in the same ballpark with numbers. i find i need 3150 - 3200 to stay on top without throttle jockeying for wind and tide. in the begining of the season that was 13.5 - 14kts, at the end it is 13.0 - 13.5kts. had her wot yesterday(4000rpm), 19 - 20kts, lost about a knot there. do you have mph/knot reading with these gph and are those from flowscans?

jim