Selling 58TC... Opinions Needed

[Freebird]

Okay, I'm sitting on my 1974 58TC here in Palmetto. I love her and she is a beatiful boat with loads of potential, but there is just too much on my plate right now to deal with. Besides this one represents what the wife says was the beginning of the end despite her approval when I bought it and her excitement over making our long awaited dream trip up the Tenn-Tom back to Tennessee and getting her into shape. She never even rode on it. Oh well, I'm sure this will all make sense one day, just not today. So much for dreams. Sorry to be so whiney, I suppose I'm a little obsessed right now. This boat used to be my escape, now it feels like a jail cell. I bought this thing as a family boat, but ...? Hell, the family memories, while few, are on the 41, but I just can't bring myself to part with that one. I'd just curl up and die without a boat right now.

Now here's where the opinion is needed. The generator and port engine run fine. I have stripped all the carpet out of the boat and have spent countless hours cleaning and fixing little things. She was bottom painted last year, and I have recently had the props worked and have a spare set. My starboard is torn down to the point of an intact long block. The heads have been rebuilt, and the hold up is mainly me as to the rebuild. I simply do not know how much money I need to put into her at the moment. In short, my life is on hold, and I don't have call waiting.

Should I just sell the boat as a fixer upper or hold off until the engine is rebuilt and spiff up the interior a little bit? I suppose I could do both if/when the time comes where she is running on both engines again and just adjust the price accordingly.

I'll be perfectly up front with you all as to what I paid for the boat... $117k. I have more than that in it now, but I would walk for $115 just for the peace of mind. My slip here is paid through April as I had originally thought that would be a nice time to take the boat back to TN since it couldn't happen last September as planned. First the engine trouble, then the barge/lock collision. That is simply not going to happen now or ever. I have to find a new slip as of May 1, so that only adds to the problems at hand.

I know the market is down, but there are not many 58TC's out there. I know I am not alone on this forum as to my thinking the 58TC was the prettiest boat Hatteras ever built. Her profile is absolutely classic and unmistakably Hatteras at its finest. Man, I hate to sell her, but it just seems like the thing to do right now.

So what do you think? As is where is, or wait and make her turn key?

 

[67hat34c]

put it up for sale as is for now and see what happens.

 

[34Hatt]

I think if you do as is where is, your going to be sitting on it for a long time. I would put the engine back together then worry about the other things. The first thing most people want is a full running Boat. Carpet and things like that you just tell them now they can pick the colors!!!!

 

[Avenger]

You paid $117, puked an engine and now you want $115? I think Dan is right, you're going to be sitting on it for a while. Regardless of your other investments in her she's much less marketable, especially in today's market. I think you're going to have to take your lumps if you want to move this one any time soon. Maybe you know a broker in that area who could give you an idea (hint, hint). Either way, good luck with it.

 

[MikeP]

Well - that's a tough one. I would feel really terrible under those circumstances if I had to part with Brigadoon.

I guess it pretty much depends on how much money you need to get out of the boat. I mean REALLY NEED to get. Obviously, if you price it low enough, someone will buy it, even in its present condition, and probably pretty quickly. However, whether that's a smart thing or not depends on your personality and finances.

I have a tendency to "give stuff away" according to my wife and friends. Basically, if I don't want/need it anymore, I just want it gone. If I don't owe any money on whatever it is, then I frankly don't care too much what I get for it. This is NOT because I have a lot of money; it's because I've never been a good money-manager and I prefer less time and trouble to more money. It may also be why I DON"T have much money!

I'm not claiming this is a good philosophy but it has a lot to do with the situation. If you must get X dollars out of the boat to pay it (or something else) off, then you have less flexibility on the price you can accept.

IF IT WAS ME - and I didn't have to get some certain price out of it, and I wanted it gone, I'd sell it as is for a giveaway price. I agree that a decent chance for sale at a reasonable price is per the previous post advice - repair the mechanicals so the boat will operate. Then leave the interior for the next owner to replace. As stated, nearly everyone does that anyway so it really isn't a big problem to the potential buyer EXCEPT for the impression that it creates.

Clearly a boat with no carpet will sell for less than a boat with carpet EVEN if the new owner plans to rip out the carpet anyway. That's just the way it is. It gives the impression that the PO ran out of money or didn't care. It also may make the prospective owner wonder about how well any other fixes were performed.

It will definitely limit your chances by not having the boat in acceptable operating and cosmetic state. Most folks want to buy a boat and immediately go boating. So, in that regard, I'm not sure you aren't just as well off to sell it as is - that way the potential buyers understand up front what they are going to be looking at.

So I think maybe I'd try selling it now priced to ultimately sell for whatever the absolute minimum price you must get for it. If nothing happens in a month, proceed with the repairs necessary to have it operating and adjust the price accordingly.

Good Luck - I know it's painful!

 

[ThirdHatt]

VERY tough question. First of all, you did make a good deal at $117k with both motors running fine. Problem is, as you noted, the market is way down right now especially on older boats and even more so over 50' due to slip availability (or lack thereof). Now that you have taken the leap to tear down an engine, the boat is worth significantly less. In all honesty, I would think that someone would have to buy that boat well under $100k to feel like they had a decent chance at getting the engine back together and still had room for the other one to need rebuild as well.

Remember that twin engines on boats run together and in general break together or within a reasonable time frame. If you tore the engine down because you felt it was time to go through them and you were just doing one per season that would be one thing but I assure you that a potential buyer will assume the worst, that the other engine is not far behind. Figuring the boat is worth low $100's running and 12V71's are $20k+/side to rebuild I'd expect offers around $75-85k. If that is not stomachable at this time then you MUST finish the engine job that you started.

Honestly, that is your only financially feasible option in my opinion. Just finish the rebuild and put her on the market. If you list her as is she will get some bottom-feeder attention as a fixer-upper and if it does not sell at the dramatically reduced price it will sit, for a LONG time. Spend the $20k or so and do the engine. That way you may get your money back or maybe lose $10-20k. The other way you're looking at loosing $50-60k.

I know this is not a pretty situation Randy and my heart goes out to you. I really think the carpet is the least of your worries.

GOOD LUCK my friend.

 

[luckydave215]

I think you guys are missing it re the carpet. REMEMBER, the admiral decides.
A boat with no carpet will turn her off, the engines don't matter to her. When MR. prospective buyer is trying to convince his "supervisor" to invest in any given boat, it's all about appearance.
Engines are just money, if she likes the interior, all she sees is having her freinds on board, and the oooo's and ahhhh's she'll hear, who cares about the engines, that's something the grase monkeys fix at the "dealer"
If she doesn't like the interior, the deal's off.

 

[Freebird]

Thanks for the input guys!

Yep, this is a catch 22 if ever there was one. I know from my own experience that smelling blood in the water brings out mainly sharks. I have assumed the roll of "Jaws" many times and did so when I bought this 58. The PO was in a similar situation of really not wanting but needing to sell the boat.

As for taking only a $2k hit from when both engines were running, I have never seen a Hatt this size and condition sell for anything near $117k. That is the only reason I bought it when I already had the 41DC which I dearly love and now plan to keep. Based on my mechanic's findings, it would appear the PO's estimate of 1,000 hours was right. It could very well be that the starboard blew only as a result of a blown oil line. TRUST ME, every line on both engines will be replaced if I keep this thing. I just thought it would be nice to have a separate stateroom for Ryan and more space for family and friends. I'm a selfish bastard you know!

Most 58TC's are priced over $200k, and that is why I didn't bother with surveys. Based on the current market pricing, I don't think it is unrealistic at all to think I can pull $115k. Pat Bustle doesn't think so either, but I suppose I will try the FSBO for 30 days and then give it to him. Obviously, I will have to take a bigger hit or raise the price to pull $115 after listing it, but I will do it with an exclusion. Truth is, this is a damn nice boat and really doesn't need much to make it a showpiece.

I am a firm believer that everything happens for a reason just like when the engine blew and the barge broke the lock on the TN. That's why I was able to joke about it with my "Maiden Voyage From Hell" thread. That's why I don't get excited when I miss my exit on the interstate. Look at how many friends I have made in FL as a result of those problems. Where would I be mentally or emotionally if not for this little unplanned Florida getaway? If it does not sell, I will not simply give it away. If I truly did not want the boat, I would have never bought it even though it represented a great deal with profit potential. Hell, the way Michelle has been doing 180's she may decide she wants to pack up with Ryan and move to Florida or someplace else and live on the 58. Damn it, we've always talked about that, always! We spent our wedding night on our boat!

Either way, I simply have to trust that Somebody has a plan for me in all this. It sure will be nice when I can look back on all this crap. I was really looking forward to seeing Freebird brought back to where she deserves to be. Who knows, maybe it will still happen. I still have faith that you get out of things what you put into them.

 

[Genesis]

Carpet is cheap. Head to the local remnant place, pick up whatever you like in commercial short-pile, cut and fit, done. Under $200 and that's taken care of. Do it - because if you don't, you're going to get banged for a "yachtie cost" to redo that, and there's no justification for that - at all.

The engine is a different matter. Fix it. If you don't, you're going to get reamed for $20k at least by a buyer.

If you fix it and get out for what you paid for it, you're $20k in the hole. If you don't fix it you're $20k PLUS the buyer doing the "oh the other one is next" game in the hole. Difference is, if you don't fix it the buyer may (more like probably WILL) turn around and try to bang you for $40k, and then you've got a tough decision to make - a bird in the hand or.......

If I was in your spot and wanted it gone FAST I'd sell it as-is and take $80, no survey contingencies, nothing. Yes, you'll cry. But it'll be gone in a couple of weeks. If you fix the engine you'll get your original cost back but may not get much more, and you have to take the time to fix the engine.

 

[Freebird]

Karl, first, thank you for your response.

I may very well invest in some cheap carpet and mobile home furniture just to set the mood. Hell, big area rugs and furniture can be purchased at Wal-Mart with a generous return privilege. I'll just keep all the receipts and have a Minnie Pearl limited edition Hatteras. Let's face it, some people simply have no imagination.

I look at the engine thing and decorating as simple math I have already worked into the pricing. All any potential buyer has to do is take the cost of the "as is" boat, add the cost to bring it up to whatever level they wish, and compare it to prices for vessels that are out there. That will still put me under market and give the buyer the opportunity to have the boat exactly the way they want it. What more could they want other than just to have it now as opposed to later? Who really goes out and purchases a 33 year old boat not expecting to personalize it to some degree?

A bird in the hand is useless unless it's big enough to feed the cat! I don't mind being on the receiving end of a financial screwing from time to time, but I rarely volunteer for it. If I didn't need money, I wouldn't sell the boat. There is just no way I see having to take a loss to the point of selling this boat in the 70's or 80's. It is worth more as a floating condo than that.

Like I said earlier, it will either sell or it won't. My world will not end either way, so I'll just see how it goes and roll with it.

 

[Genesis]

You bought it for a song.

The asking prices on YW are radically unrealistic. Those boats are simply not selling.

Get someone who has access to "as solds" to give you a list of 58TCs for the last year. I suspect you'll get some sobering news both in the settlement price figures (which are likely inflated, by the way, since there's no LEGAL requirement to be honest with YW's "soldboat" feature) AND the number of actual transactions.

Your boat was worth $117 when you bought it with two working engines. It now has one working engine and half an interior. The interior is easy and cheap to fix but the engine is not. You could get back what you paid for it if it was in the same condition as when you bought it, I suspect. Problem is, its not.

The market has SIGNIFICANTLY deteriorated in the last year on these boats. I could buy back a boat like Gigabite for at least 30% less than I got for mine in May of last year. There are a whole host of them listed on YW right now but through conversations with folks "in the biz" I've been told that these boats all have "wish" prices and simply aren't going anywhere at those numbers. There are a few with a more realistic ask and they will likely sell at 20% off from that.

I'd fix the motor and interior and put it on the market at your asking price + the cost of the engine repair, and see what happens. Just don't be surprised if you get an offer at 20% below your ask - because you probably will.

Personally, were I in the market for a boat like this, I'd prefer one with TWO blown motors, or close enough to "blown" that I could get her home on her own bottom but nothing more. That would allow me to rebuild and/or repower at my leisure and with my own contractors and/or effort, which is always my preference. However, one blown motor is the worst of all worlds because a buyer is going to view that as "the other one will blow tomorrow."

That pretty much puts you in the position of having to fix it.

 

[eclipsarkanna]

Sorry for my lack of knowledge but what is a 'TC'. I have been looking at the 58 Hatts but am not familiar with the 'TC'. Do you have a picture you can email me or post or can you direct me to one on the Yachtworld site. Your price seems reasonable even in this down market. Actually it is the down market that has held me back from buying - even though I am bumping up against my retirement date in less than 8 weeks now! I haven't been able to bring myself to buy when every day I go on Yachtworld and see constant price reductions on 53EDs and 58s that I was getting ready to circle and put an offer on. Looks like I will be moving into a hotel instead of my long dreamed of Hatt in 8 weeks unless prices stabilize or I get into my head that I should buy and not worry about seeing prices continue to tumble.

Bill

 

[Freebird]

Karl,

Once again good points well taken. It's not that I can't afford to fix the engine, I just want to put this and other associated parts of my life behind me as quickly as possible. Then I can move on to more pressing matters like what the hell I am going to do with the rest of my life and my son and where the hell I am going to do it. Sorry if this is getting too personal, but that's kinda where I am right now for better or worse.

I'm not normally an impulsive person, but I am nearing my limits right now, and the 58 is simply not a priority. You know, it's funny, I've been messing around on this boat all day now and I really would like to keep it. The warmth is coming back, and I have the ability to see things in my head as to how they can be with some fresh ideas. This boat could really be something special, but I am just way too damn sentimental for my own good. Yeah, I've looked at larger boats, but this one is all I would ever really need. It would truly be a great liveaboard, and that is what I want to do, I think.

Hell, the 41 is really all I ever needed as well. Maybe I should just list the 41 and the 58 and keep whichever boat doesn't sell first. The 41 is the epitome of a turn key boat and is truly one of a kind. There are other 41's of its vintage, but there is not another nor will there every be another one like it. That was certainly a buying point for me. Regular boats come and go all the time, and there is almost always a better deal to be had around the corner. Not so on the 41. I knew if I didn't jump on that one, somebody else would! No regrets there, none at all.

Now then, I've done it again. Somebody stop me before I put a Bayliner to my head!

 

[Freebird]

Sorry for my lack of knowledge but what is a 'TC'. I have been looking at the 58 Hatts but am not familiar with the 'TC'. Do you have a picture you can email me or post or can you direct me to one on the Yachtworld site. Your price seems reasonable even in this down market. Actually it is the down market that has held me back from buying - even though I am bumping up against my retirement date in less than 8 weeks now! I haven't been able to bring myself to buy when every day I go on Yachtworld and see constant price reductions on 53EDs and 58s that I was getting ready to circle and put an offer on. Looks like I will be moving into a hotel instead of my long dreamed of Hatt in 8 weeks unless prices stabilize or I get into my head that I should buy and not worry about seeing prices continue to tumble.

Bill

Hey Bill,

Looks like you and I were typing at the same time!

The TC is a Hargrave design that is the classic three level silhouette with a long foredeck. You can view the original brochures by looking at the home page of this site and clicking on the brochures archive. You will find the 58TC (Triple Cabin) there, but the pictures of that day do not do it justice. There are some actual photos of my boat on "Freebird Pics" as I recall the name of that thread. I'm going to go outside here in a minute and snap some more. I'm not sure if I have the patch cord to transfer them to the computer, so they may not appear until I get back to my office in TN on Monday.

I am taking a much different approach in listing my bottom line price on this boat and sharing my original purchase price with family. Nobody else you see on YachtWorld will be doing this either. Brokers get owners all worked up by listing their boats for much more than they will normally bring. Those price reductions you are seeing are just an attempt to get somebody to even look at the boat. Trust me, been there, done that. You can always drop a price, but you can't go up when market conditions change. Although I have seen some try.

I looked briefly at YW and there are some 58TC's on there. Just use the range of 1971 to 1975 (I believe that was the last year, check the brochure listing). The 58MY took its place, and while there are arguable benefits to that model, I personally find it less attractive than the TC. There is no mistaking one for the other.

Don't be shy, pick up the phone and call me 865/617-6212. I'll even rent it to you for less than you'll pay in that hotel. It's in a first class marina with free shuttle service to Tampa and Sarasota airports, and there is a five star restaurant on site. Check out www.rdmarina.com Maybe there is a hyphen between the r and d, but that will get you live camera shots and list the ammenities. Hell, let me know when you are on line, and I'll strike a pose for you!

 

[Angela]

Sorry for my lack of knowledge but what is a 'TC'. I have been looking at the 58 Hatts but am not familiar with the 'TC'. Do you have a picture you can email me or post or can you direct me to one on the Yachtworld site. Bill

A "TC" is a "triple cabin" which is different than the three-stateroom 58 motoryacht and the three-stateroom 58 Yachtfish. Here is a link to the archived brochure. http://www.hatterasowners.com/Brochures/58TC/58TCArchives.htm
This boat was produced during the early to mid 70s and have beautiful lines. During my search for a 58MY, I looked at a 58TC, but for me, it was too much of a "chutes and ladders" style, meaning you go down three or four steps to one level, and then up or down a few more steps across the room to the next level which is different than the 58MY and 58YF which are for the most part two complete levels throughout with the exception of two steps at the crew stateroom. The 58TC has an engine room that is below one of the salons and is accessed through the salon floor or through the stairs going from the salon to the galley. The other 58s you've probably seen have two walk in engine rooms. The 58TC is a beautiful boat and has a wonderful "entertaining" area due to the two salons it has. It had its pros and cons for me, and eventually, I found what I really wanted which was the four-stateroom, galley up model. I do, however, think the lines of a 58TC are by far, much prettier than my 58MY. Check out the photos and the floor plan drawings on the link above.

 

[Genesis]

One of the things I like about the TC is the separate pilothouse.

Some won't like the compromises that this forces in the rest of the layout. Its all a matter of what pushes your buttons.....

 

[eclipsarkanna]

Angela/Freebird:

Thanks for the information and Angela is right - a very nice looking boat (not that looks should have a huge play in the buying decision). My brain was not working obviously as I have looked at the Triple Cabins but the asking prices were too close to a good 58MY in the late 70s so I stopped looking at the TCs.

Freebird, once you resolve in your mind that you want to let the TC go (and I have read all of your thread and responses and know exactly what you are going through) drop me a note to my email (eclipsarkanna@rogers.com). No need for any pictures because if I get my mind back around a TC I would call you and simply get on a plane to look. I actually joined up on the Hatteras Forum to gain technical knowledge and to see what owners really thought of their Hatts - I concluded 15 months ago when I made the decision to buy (and set aside my purchase money into a boat fund not to be touched!) that there was only one boat to buy - pretty much a no-brainer that it would be a Hatt. I discounted the Yachtfish (don't want any cockpit) and too much wasted side deck space - needed for fishing but not for live-aboard and cruising.

I feel like a wolve in a sheeps den skulking around looking into private mail in your case Freebird (I know thats not the case as you would hardly 'publish' on the internet - but you get my drift). I dislike the shark buyer approach and refuse to play the lowball and sit and wait game (I am a retiring word mechanic by profession but have bought and sold a lot of real estate and I got thoroughly sick of the "lowballers" to the point that I used to counteroffer with more than my asking price just to p.o. the lowball sharks and cause them a little discomfort. So I am going through an intensive self education process on pricing and when I get to a price that I figure is a good and fair price I will contact you. I am really taking my time and although my empty new dock may sit vacant, my peace of mind is worth it plus I just can't afford to overpay with terminating my income and retiring.

Thanks for your help and you too Angela.


Bill

 

[Angela]

The 58MYs, both the three and four stateroom models, also have a separate pilothouse. The 58YF does not. While I do like my pilothouse, it makes it somewhat more challenging to back the boat into the slip single-handed since I have to leave the helm and either go outside or walk back to the salon to see what I'm hopefully not backing into. Boats....gotta give up something to get something....

Got to agree with the Bird on the TC.....the lines are stunningly gorgeous compared to that of the 58MYs!

 

[eclipsarkanna]

Freebird:

I am definitely interested in getting into serious purchase discussions and have dropped you a note on what I think is your email address. However with all the 'spam blockers' my email may not get through to your email box. Your ballpark price seems fair and a blown engine doesn't put me off, nor do poor cosmetics. If the hull, deck and other "basics" are solid I was planning on rebuilding. I will not get into the lowball tactics and operate on the basis that you set your price, I will come down and take a look and unless its a total disaster (which I doubt), it seems like a fair purchase to me even in this falling market. So drop me an email at eclipsarkanna@rogers.com and I have pulled off the spam blocker so your email gets through.

Thanks for the brochure link and advice once again Angela. There just may have been a deal made if Freebird is serious about letting the TC go.

Bill

 

[Freebird]

Freebird:

I am definitely interested in getting into serious purchase discussions and have dropped you a note on what I think is your email address. However with all the 'spam blockers' my email may not get through to your email box. Your ballpark price seems fair and a blown engine doesn't put me off, nor do poor cosmetics. If the hull, deck and other "basics" are solid I was planning on rebuilding. I will not get into the lowball tactics and operate on the basis that you set your price, I will come down and take a look and unless its a total disaster (which I doubt), it seems like a fair purchase to me even in this falling market. So drop me an email at eclipsarkanna@rogers.com and I have pulled off the spam blocker so your email gets through.

Thanks for the brochure link and advice once again Angela. There just may have been a deal made if Freebird is serious about letting the TC go.

Bill

Hey Bill,

I just got your email as my spam blocker misdirected yours as well. I sent a reply so you may want to check your spam as well just in case.

Unfortunately, I am very serious about selling the 58 althought I really do not want to. She will not disappoint you unless of course you are looking for a new boat or a bristol example of an old one. She can be made the latter with relative ease. Otherwise, I would not have purchased her. Trust me, I kid around a lot on here but this is not my first rodeo.

Thanks for the reply, and thanks to Angela for providing the link. I don't know how the heck to do that. I know boats, but I don't know computers. One correction though, the 58TC has a seperate pilothouse very similar to the one on your 58MY. Mine however is no longer seperate as the original bulkhead was removed and the aft area was totally enclosed. A large wet bar now takes the place of the bulkhead that was removed. It now has a very large full-beam upper salon. This is also very helpful in docking from the pilothouse as you can see the stern.