Sea Foam V ATF

[67hat34c]

I just purchased some Sea Foam and will use directed an pour directly into the carbs. however what about adding 1 gallon of ATF to each 115 gallon gas tank to clean fuel system and valves.

 

[Passages]

I've not heard of using ATF fluid in Gas applications - diesel yes.

Might be safer to use Marvel Mystery Oil for fuel system cleaning. Careful though, it'll pick up a lot of crud and deposit it in your filter.

 

[MikeP]

One thing to remember re dumping stuff into carbs is that
it does not clean any of the critical parts or passages in a carburetor since it never enters any internal part (passages/jets) of the carb.

However, various products for this purpose might, when you pour them into the intake tract, help remove deposits from valves, etc which may prove helpful.

You may be interested to know that the old standby chemical for this purpose - pouring into the carb to remove deposits on valves/cleaning combusion chamber is.........................water. Cheap and effective but doesn't have much cachet!

I wouldn't put ATF in gasoline - it will potentially gum up the carb passages and it will reduce the octane of the gas. If you want a good detergent in there, Marvel Mystery Oil is a lighter, naptha based oil that is very high in detergents and will not lower the octane to any noticeable degree. It also has a long history of industry-wide recommended use for this specific purpose. And it has a nice wintergreen smell!

 

[67hat34c]

how much marvel per gallon?

 

[Genesis]

My trick with Sea Foam is to get a small (2 gallon) pony tank and put a bottle of Sea Foam in there + 1 gallon of gas.

Hook that to your engine and run it through at fast idle. Run 1/4 of it, shut down and wait 15 minutes or so, start up, do it again, etc.

The engine will smoke HORRIBLY if there is carbon in there being burned off and cleaned out. If it runs CLEAN then it doesn't have crap in it.

After the last batch is used up hook your normal fuel supply back up, wait 20-30 minutes, then go run the hell out of the engines for 10-15 minutes to blow anything left out of there.

This will clean the entire fuel and induction system, including the carbs or fuel injection system.

 

[MikeP]

MMO to gas - about 4 oz to 10 gal of gas

BUT...

I'd recommend Karl's treatment which gets a heavy-duty dose into the actual fuel system/carb. To me this is much better than adding an additve to all the gas in the tanks. Cheaper too.

But don't expect miracles if the carbs are badly gunked up (doesn't sound like yours are, though). I have worked on carbs that required inserting wire into the passages to clean them - solvent alone didn't unclog the passages, including the old "dipping" solvent which will take the skin right off your hands!

 

[Mike53C]

This is a detour from the "how to check exhaust leaks..." thread. I was going to ask if there was some "cleaning" agent I could use on a DD to try to loose a sticking piston ring, just in case this is my problem with the excess crankcase pressure.

Now, in this thread I read about using ATF to clean all the gunk, and Passages suggesting it is ok for diesel, not that good for gas.
If this is so, has anyone experienced using ATF on a 12 71N?...or any other N Detroit?...if so, how did you did it?...and in what proportion?...or are you suggesting to just pour a continuous thin feed of oil directly into the blowers intake?

Is there any other "solvent" I may use. I don't find Mystery Oil down here in Venezuela so Marvel is out of the equation.

We are still talking about gunk cleaning, so I don't feel like I have hijacked your thread 67hat34c, only gone from gas to diesel....sorry for that.

Miguel

 

[Avenger]

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER pour anything flammable into the intake of a diesel!!!!!!!! The engine will see it as fuel with potentially catastrophic and/or deadly results.

Sorry for the screaming. I just wanted to make sure that nobody tries to "fog" their Detroit. I would recommend that you do the diagnostic homework before you start trying to patch a problem. Remove the airbox covers and visually inspect the rings. Do a compression test. Find where the problem is, then take appropriate steps.

There are a few methods for freeing up seized rings, but their use depends on what is causing the rings to stick. Unfortunately most of them are also poor patch jobs that are not a long term solution.

 

[yachtsmanbill]

I'm glad you said it SCROD !! A couple of drops will cause a runaway in a heartbeat. To me, stuck rings are like a jumped timing gear. Only happens in fantasy land. Maybe if it sat outside for 10 years. I agree with the airbox inspection for a possible broken ring, but on a well seasoned DD I find that unlikely too. I believe mine are vented to atmosphere to the blower silencer. I think crankcase pressure should be negligible.
Made it home after 800 miles and split a gallon of Rotella between 2 engines, not too darn bad. 10 hours a day at 1500 netted between 13 and 23 gallons an hour including lock times etc.The worst being against a 7mph current on the Mississippi. This would still leave a slight fuel sheen on the water at idle; bad injector maybe? Notice the sooting problem on the transom? Gotta love those 12-71Ns !! ws

 

[Avenger]

This would still leave a slight fuel sheen on the water at idle; bad injector maybe?

Mmmmm, It might rabbit. It might. (Sorry. Bad rephrase of a Bugs Bunny line.)

Gotta love those 12-71Ns !! ws

I'd hang on to them.

I agree on the stuck rings. Why would this happen suddenly? What Mike is describing (if I'm following this correctly) sounds almost like airbox pressure making its way into the crankcase. The big mystery is; how can this happen?

The other big mystery is how we ended up having this discussion on 67Hat34c's thread about SeaFoam and ATF in gas engines. Anybody have any solutions to that??? Miguel???

 

[yachtsmanbill]

The other big mystery is how we ended up having this discussion on 67Hat34c's thread about SeaFoam and ATF in gas engines. Anybody have any solutions to that??? Miguel???

I would NEVER repeat NEVER pour ATF down the carb. I did this on a 327 '63 Biscayne and it freed all the carbon BEHIND the rings and she smoked all the way to the bone yard. The carbon is necessary to seal the .001" ring land clearance. ws

 

[MikeP]

Found this to be very interesting - it's the instructions for cleaning engines with a "top engine cleaner." They give several GM part numbers for various types of TECs but the instructions are the same for all.

They explain how to remove carbon using TEC but go on to say if it didn't work, repeat the same process with water! Seems like somebody could make money by just bottling the water, throwing some food color in it, calling it something like aqua-blast, and packaging the instructions using only item 4! (Item 4 is the old "classic" instructions for using water for this purpose) I didn't copy item 1 - it just talks about removing air cleaner, warming up eng, etc.:

2. Raise the engine speed to about 2000 RPM and slowly introduce 1/2 can of Top Engine Cleaner (TEC) into the engine.
a. Have an assistant operate the throttle to keep the engine running while the TEC is added and then release the throttle
allowing the engine to stall.
b. Restart the engine and rev it up to 2000 RPM. There will be billows of white smoke.
c. Let the engine run at 2000 RPM until it stops running rough.
d. Then introduce the remaining TEC into the engine as fast as possible. Take care not to introduce the TEC too fast. DO NOT
flood and hydrostatic lock the engine! Be patient and judicious!

3. Immediately shut off the engine and allow the TEC to sit for at least 1⁄2 hour, preferably overnight allowing time for the cleaner to
soak into the deposits.

4. Restart the engine and increase the RPM to 2,000. There should be more white smoke.

5. If the noise is still present:
a. Warm the engine to full operating temperature.
b. Introduce water instead of TEC.
c. The shock of the relatively cool water and steam should dislodge the carbon adhering to the piston faces, valves, and
combustion chamber.
d. While keeping the engine at 2,000 RPM introduce 2 quarts of water into the engine slowly enough to prevent it from stalling.

 

[Avenger]

There used to be a legitimate application for Top Engine Cleaner on the 5.7 Olds diesel. (Insert derrogatory comment here ). You were supposed to remove the injectors, introduce it into the cylinders and let it sit overnight. They had problems with rings sticking from excessive carbon buildup, and this often was a viable fix. It would last until the feather-footed vehicle operator let them carbon up again.

 

[Mike53C]

I agree on the stuck rings. Why would this happen suddenly? What Mike is describing (if I'm following this correctly) sounds almost like airbox pressure making its way into the crankcase. The big mystery is; how can this happen?

The other big mystery is how we ended up having this discussion on 67Hat34c's thread about SeaFoam and ATF in gas engines. Anybody have any solutions to that??? Miguel???

First of all thankyou for the advise against the use of ATF, or any other thing that the motor may recognize as food. Dumb me, I should have known better. The first thing I did on those motors was to install the cables that trip the emergency shutoff flaps, I was so scared of a runaway motor!!!!

Maybe I don't want to believe I have a problem in the rings, (well of course I don't), and that makes me try to find other answers than that. I know it is difficult to convey what I see in writing (specially in a strange language for me) but the flow of air coming from that breather tube (and the dipstick tube if I pull out the stick) is so strong and steady that I can not see how this can come from anything related to one cylinder (except maybe a hole in the piston which I am sure is not the case). This problem came suddenly and I only realized it because of the smell, as it doesn't show in other ways. One thing I forgot to say is that on the same trip that the smell began, that motor stopped while underway. The reason was water in the Racor fuel filter/separator. I changed the filter and drained the water and it started right away without further problems. Except that when we came to the anchoring place I noticed the smell for the first time. However I don't know how one thing could relate to the other.
I agree with Scrod, why a sudden stuck or broken ring?...and even with a broken ring how can such a huge amount of air go into the crankcase. And if the air comes from inside a cylinder why there is no smoke coming out from that breather?
I understand what MikeP said in the other thread about the consequences of inbalance causing the "pumping", but I don't know, for some reason I believe my problem is air from the blower going directly to the crankcase.
I still think that a blown seal could be the culprit. Pascal says about blue smoke as a consequence, but I am not that sure. If there is a broken seal air would force oil from the gears OUT of the blower and then that air would go via return holes to the crankcase. So if no oil is going thru the broken seal into the blower why should I have blue smoke? What I don't know is if those drain holes are big enough to let so much air thru.

Unfortunately next weekend I am stuck home, my wife has a bad case of shingles (Herpes zoster), culebrilla we call it, and is so sore that there is no way I can make her endure the jumps of the dirt road. The ulcers are all swollen and not drying yet. Let me tell you, she is suffering.

Oh well, some inspiration will come or some of you will say...

Hey! I had this problem once and all it was.....Boy I could french kiss that guy....

Sorry for the rant fellas...

Now I really did it...my problems spans TWO threads...

Nite now

Miguel

 

[Boss Lady]

See if you can get some Biodiesel. It is such a good solvent and lubricant that if you have carbon build up it will be gone in short order.

 

[Mike53C]

I don't know if I can get this, but if I do, how should I use it...just in place of the normal fuel for a while, or mixed?....

Miguel