Removing Hand Railing Varnish

[StratPlan61]

It's past time to remove the old finish from my railings. I inherited this embarassing mess from the previous owner and my pride has dragged me to the task-at-hand. Who can direct me to a product which will remove the weathered varnish (some bare wood showing) without disturbing the paint or other adverse impacts. I was hoping to find a brush-on product so I could mask-off the adjacent paint and maybe scrap the old finish away. I suspect some finish sanding will be required but I am trying to find a method less intrusive to my marina neighbors than just plain sanding.

Bear'
1984 61' MY Strategic Plan

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Bear,
I removed my bow rails this winter and refinished them in the garage. I don't think you will find a stripper that will remove the varnish, but not disturb the Imron. I have used that Orange stripper from Home Depot, but found it to be less effective than the good old Zip-Strip. If you don't want to remove the rails then I would think sanding would be the best. Try to find a sander with the dust recovery setup. That should help some.

 

[trogers]

Sadly I think that I have too much experience with varnishing. My previous boat was a classic trawler with teak everywhere.

In the course of caring from my previous boats hand rails, cap rails, doors, window frames, hatches, etc. I came to the unleasant conclusion that there is no substitue for an amazing amounts of effort.

I used varnish strippers in the past and ended up having to redo portions of my awl-grip. Hence no more strippers were allowed on the boat (the other kind was NEVER allowed either ). I was given some bad advice once about using a brass brush. Since teak has streaks of "softer" wood, those soft steaks get lifted out and you never can get that smooth finish after, or not without sanding your teak away. Hence no more brass brushes.

I use a orbital sander with 60 or 100 grit to get the old varnish down and then use successively 150, 200 and 320 on my 1/4 sheet pad sander to get it down to smooth. The goal is to get rid of the old varnish, not the teak. I like to use teak cleaner and brightener to act as a process check to see if I missed any spots of varnish as they show up as "splotches" when the rest of the raw wood is wet with the cleaner and brighter. If you miss these and start laying varnish they show up as a yellow patch and, I think, spoil the look.

Tack cloth the heck out of it and start laying varnish.

I always start with a coat of 50-50, 50% varnish and 50% varnish thinner to act as a sealer coat for the raw teak. After that, 5-10 coats of 95-100% varnish, my personal preference is Epifanes. I use 320 grit between my coats with very liberal use of the tack cloth to get the wood as clean as possible prior to the next coat.

I'm doing my wing doors right now as they were a bit rough when I bough fun@sea.calm. On my wing doors I have an interesting configuration of screen door, that opens out along the companion ways and a solid door with the typical glass window that opens into the aft deck area. I haven't started my screen doors yet which I'm expecting them to be a bit trickier as I cannot get a sander anywhere near the screen / mesh without ripping it.

Still my 56 has only a fraction of the teak that my 44 trawler had. I'm happy to only spend only a fraction of the time caring for the teak that I used to have invest in my old boat.

 

[Keith]

I recently became a Hatteras owner. Prior was a sailor owning a 43' Hans Christian for 13 years. The Hans has miles of varnished teak on the exterior. The method I used was the heat gun and scraper method. Get a cheap, wooden handled scraper, keep it sharp by filing, use the heat gun and heat up the old varnish, scrap the old varnish off as soon as it begins to bubble. This method removes multiple layers without needing to worry about chemicals dripping on your paint. Just be carefull you don't burn the adjacent paint with the heat gun. Get a large paint scrapper and use it as a mask to reflect the heat back from a painted surface. Usually, the teak just needs mild sanding after it has been scrapped.

 

[CapetaniosG]

I agree with Keith. When I bought my 53 MY in England several years ago the two side sliding doors were painted white with some kind of a two part paint. What a shame! I asked the seller who painted the teak doors white and he said if you don't like them get a heat gun and a scraper and remove the paint. I took his advice and removed the paint that way. The heatgun is electric and you must keep the gun moving otherwise, you can burn the wood. It is fairly fast and effective. The seller doesn't know it but he paid for it at the closing several times what it cost me.

I tried the same on my teak railing and the varnish comes right off with a little scraping. The scraper is triagular in shape attached to a handle. I works well. As a recall it took me about 10 to 12 hours to remove the varnish from the railing. Try it. You may like it.

CapetaniosG

1975 53 Hatt MY

 

[bobk]

OK, now that you have the rails clean, what are you going to put back on? I have yet to hear of a modern miracle finish that is easier to maintain than good old Semco. It's not bright, but it does look like wood. And on teak, one coat once of twice a year does it. It has been on my trawler since 1986, and takes no more effort than I described. Just rinse the dirt off the existing coat, and flow on a new one. It won't protect mahogony, but on teak it's great.

Don't beat up on me untill you have seen my boat.

Bob

 

[StratPlan61]

Thanks everyone for the comments. I was going to remove my railings but from the pilothouse aft the 'half railings' are mere wood trim and permanently affixed to the sides of the deckhouse (darnit!). It is these long trim/railing pieces which challenge me the most because of the Imron paint above and below. I have had decent luck with sanding the open railings - but these darn trim pieces look like a 'toughy'. Appreciate the tips - any and all are very much appreciated!

Bear'
1984 61' MY Strategic Plan

 

[SeaEric]

Ditto on the heat gun. Thats the best way.

 

[NotToWorry]

Heat gun is the way to go..with scraper tool

 

[Maynard Rupp]

We used "Bristol Finish" instead of varnish. 4 coats in sucession with no sanding , then sand with 320, one more coat. Depth is as good as 10 coats of varnish, beautiful amber color. It still looks great after 2 years. They claim 18 years except in places like Florida. Seven years in Florida and the tropics.
http://www.bristolfinish.com/

 

[trogers]

Brightwork, when done well, is a work or art. As we all know a true artist must suffer for his/her art. Logically, one must conclude in order to have the proper effect on the brightwork, one must have suffered greviously.

Hence you need to sand the varnish down and avoid the use of the heat gun.

 

[REBrueckner]

I've been using Epiphanes varnish and like it a lot...the variety that can be given an additional coat within 48 hours with NO sanding in between. After stripping to bare wood, being able to build up a coat a day without sanding and cleaning cuts the work time WAAAAY down.

One coat annually keeps the handrails just fine. Maybe down south two annual coats would be required. Last week I got a prime (thinned) coat and one additional coat on in the same day after stripping.

 

[MikeP]

Epifanes! I finally got all the Cetol off most of the boat and have the 4th coat of Ep on the bow pulpit, wing doors, saloon/back deck doors (still working on getting the Cetol off the handrails).

What a difference!!!!!!!! Epifanes is GORGEOUS! Anyone who says Cetol looks as good as varnish is just saying that to make themselves feel better! It's like the difference between a Ford Maverick (Cetol) and a Bently Continental GT (Epifanes).

 

[SKYCHENEY]

There is no substitute for varnish, unless you consider Bristol. I think it looks just as good, but the verdict is still out as far as longevity vs price. I have used both and I still prefer Captains Varnish.

 

[spartonboat1]

I just went through a self-imposed massive effort to strip and re-varnish my swim platform over the winter. Verdict- tried to do it as right as possible. Still did not achieve the perfection desired, but came close. But passes the 5' test.

To do it really right there is no substitute for "hand" sanding. I tried heat gun and scraper, but yours truly would slightly gouge the wood at time. Hand sanding was best result. Strippers will raise the grain, if not careful.

I kept a small vacuum running all the time and constantly vacuumed the dust away, since it instantly interferes with more sanding. I also vacuumed the sand paper removing the accumulated dust, which makes it sand much more effectively. So vacuum, vacuum, vacuum. This per professionals advice and born out the longer we sanded and varnished.

Don't have a favorite varnish (yet), but being a sucker for a sales pitch, I fell for the Interlux Schooner varnish, which actually does look very nice. Cleaned up with Interlux 333.

I then covered that with Awl-Brite 2 part (its really three parts, but sold as two parts- go figure) polyurethane varnish, which sets up fast and is very durable. This combo Schooner, then Awl-Brite, is recommended by the Rybovich yard, but is a polyurethane over tung oil (Schooner). The two-part is the health bad-boy and I wore the very best air filter mask I could buy, and applied the varnish in a fairly open area. Once in a great while could tell something powerful was out there in the air. Wore the mask very tight.

Oddly enough, Interlux recommends against applying their own two part Perfection varnish over their tung-oil varnish (Schooner). Admitedly, the 2 part seems to "strike-in" a little. It has its own bright finish which is a different type of shine than the tung-oil.

Did I go crazy? Probably. Stripped to bare (60 grit, then 120 or 150), one coat stain, 3 coats sealers, 8-9 (lost count) coats tung-oil varnish (Schooner), 3 coats (1.5mils ea) of Awl-Brite. Hand sanded between all coats, with 320 grit as favorite and 600 grit for the last 3 coats. Remember that Riva applies 28 coats to their boats in Italy- are they still in business?

Best brush? Believe it or not the best brush by far was a $2 foam brush from Lowes sold as "Decorator's Choice by Wooster". We tried many brands and styles of brushes, including the best "badger" bristle, and the foam was better than any bristle brush. Hands down the best.

The 2 part (3?) goes a long, long way. 3 oz would cover the entire swim platform. Instructions for application are very precise, expressed in mils/application and total mils max. Parts are Base (varnish), converter (purpose- unclear) and a hardener. Ratios: 4:2:1, aka 1:1/2:1/4. So measuring small 3 oz amounts needed for ratios was difficult. Tried different containers. Can be applied without sanding every 4 hours and down to 55 degrees and up to 75.

Final absolute best approach for measuring was my wife bought three true-glass (not plastic) shot glasses from Bed, Bath and Beyond, painted with measures in tbs, tps, ozs, ml, etc.- very accurate and the painted measure stayed on; did not come off when handled or when in contact with the 3 parts. Cleaned up well with Acetone, then Simple Green and water.

We also bought small syringes intended for use with West Marine for applying their epoxies. They worked well for drawing up 1/4 or 1/2 oz of hardener or converter and squirting in with the base.

I have some pictures I will post in progress and finished.

Note that in the above post that the object is to remove as little substrate as possible, only the old varnish.

P.s., had "mucho trouble" applying tung-oil varnish in basement with many, many bubbles- my guess is too warm, maybe too dry or humid. Never figured this out. This issue mostly went away when moved to a more open, cooler environment.

Sorry for long post, but maybe someone can profit from my hard earned experience/knowledge.

 

[Angela]

I, too, was left with handrails in terrible and embarrassing condition due to lack of attention. Mine needed to come down to the bare wood and be started over. A lot of work, let me tell you! Sanding, sanding and more sanding. I had some places where 60 grit paper wouldn't cut the old varnish (assuming it was varnish and not epoxy) and I had to very carefully take a grinder to it. And for the lingering tiny spots, there's nothing like hand sanding.

I visited the website for "Signature Finish" (same thing as Bristol Finish) and for cleaning the old teak before re-varnishing, they recommended "Snappy Teak-NU". It’s a two part process - part 1 has some varnish removing properties, and part 2 is a brightener. I got some of that and while I don't know what's in there, I can tell you that's some BAD stuff! The instructions say to use a long handle brush to apply it and they mean it! A little splatter on bare skin and you’ll wish you could leap out of your skin. I followed the directions, keeping a hose close by to spray the boat where stuff would occasionally drip. In the end, that old gray teak was a brilliant honey color - just the bare wood. And it also pointed out where there were still a few tiny remnants of varnish, which means...you guessed it...more sanding.

It’s been more work than I expected and it’s taken longer to do than I expected (isn’t everything on a boat like that?), but I’m ready for the final sanding on the portion that I’ve started and then it’s varnish time.

I’m saving the old gray swim platform for Ed to do!

 

[Angela]

one more...

 

[StratPlan61]

Ang,
Thanks for the update to this old thread. Strategic Plan is inside heated storage for the winter and I am getting ready to start this horrific job!! Thanks for your photos and suggestions. I haven't decided on my final attack plan but am nearing the enevitable - YUK!! I know it will look good when complete but I believe I am going to opt-out for off-white paint to match the hullsides. My last boat had too much teak (decks) and I do not want to spend my retirement days as a brightwork-slave. The natural (varnished) look is better but not worth the effort it requires to me. I will sand them down and paint them. Sky suggested removing the front rails so will try that and bring them home if possible - that save considerable time and inconvenience. I'll update the forum upon completion.

Bear'
1984 61' MY Strategic Plan

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Beautiful work Angela. You will really love the final look and it will definately be something you will be proud of. Thanks for the pictures.

 

[Angela]

Thankfully, this is all the exterior wood trim on the boat....uh oh...forgot one...the L-shaped seating on the flybridge has teak trim, and so does the Whaler. Oh, and the pulpit, and the swim platform (Ed's job!). I guess I've got more than I initially thought. But, I do love that look.

I'm real happy with the way this is turning out. Just that little bit of wood on the boat makes her look so elegant. I can promise that the rails will NEVER reach this condition again as long as she is mine. A refreshing coat or two once a year...well work that one-day's work.

I had to take a break from the scrubbing and sanding - I really need for my neighbor to go for a boat ride because I don't want to accidently get any of this stuff sprayed or splattered on his boat. So I decided to start remodeling the master head. In dismantling some of the stuff in there...one thing I can say about Hatteras....PURE QUALITY. All of the hardware in there - it's real, it's heavy, and it's old, etc. - none of that chrome encased plastic home store stuff.

She's a lot of work, but I'm enjoying every minute of it - watching the transformation. I can't tell you how much happiness this Hatteras has brought into my life.