Radar/plotter

[Nick]

My Raytheon 20XX radar (4KW open array) is out of order and I am thinking about upgrading to the new color LCD combination units instead of repairing the 13 year old unit. I reviewed the thread back in July and was wondering if anyone has feedback on the new Raymarine C or E series 80, 120 or Furuno 1800 (10 inch) screens and C- Map vs Navionics charts. I read the PBR review and it looks like any one of the units is a good choice. I use the unit primarily for navigation in the NE and will probably go with the 4KW radome (save the extra bucks on the scanner) mounted on the halftower. The dispaly will be installed in an electronics cabinet on the bridge of our 37.

Nick

 

[REBrueckner]

Your choice depends on how you wish to use the radar.
Why not replace the bad unit component with a used one from e-bay? Otherwise, I'd go with Furuno, an open 2KW array. If you use the radar mostly for collision avoidance at short ranges, and GPS for autopilot control, 2KW is fine. Raytheon electronics gets mixed reports on Trawlers and Trawlering, especialy networked systems.
You'll get better discrimination with an open array (narrow beam width than radome) and besides, they look cool rotating. 4KW is most useful when placed high on a larger boat and helps get better range in rain. Otherwise, antenna height (and target height) usualy limits maximum range, not peak instantenous power.

 

[doc g]

Given the choice ,save the money on the display and get the bigger scanner. The larger the antenna,the better the resolution on the radar image.Open array is always better.

 

[Mike36c]

I installed a C-120 about two years ago along with a 10kw open array and 1Kw digital transducer(package) and it's tough for me say because I'm a die-hard Furuno fan (I kept my 1850 as a back-up) but the unit is great, easy to use, and bright in the fly bridge. I can mark small birds at 5mi and see 2500' down. If you don't mind the extra bucks the E-120 is even better(video feeds/platinum charts, etc.). If you just want a good used radar I have a Furuno 2KW 1721 24m (radome) in great shape if your interested (Admiral says get it out of the garage )

 

[Genesis]

I have a Ray 4kw dome and BW LCD display and its been FLAWLESS.

If this is worth "mixed reviews", well, I'd love to know what's better!

 

[SeaEric]

I've always been a RayMarine guy in the past. This time around, on the recommendation of several friends, I went with the Garmin. No room for the larger 3010, so I have the Garmin 3006. I have the radar, depth/fish finder module, the XM Satellite for the weather display, and of course the chartplotter. I love it. Its very easy to use and the weather display saved me from getting caught in a nasty squall. All looked fine on the horizon, but the live weather radar showed a storm cell. I waited a few minutes before shoving off and sure enough a nasty blow came through. I'm really happy I was still tied to the dock! I did the install myself. I took my time and planned it all out in advance. It was more work than I expected, but it came together and everything works perfectly. I think all of the new combo units are good products. I have to admit that is was the XM option on the Garmin that pushed me in their direction. Fun and useful gadget.

 

[jim rosenthal]

The hot ticket right now is supposed to be the new RayMarine systems which use Navionics Platinum cartridges. So says PBR. (and I prefer NorthStar equipment, but there you have it). NorthStars radars are made by Sitex/Koden I think. I don't know who makes Garmins, do they make them themselves?
A lot of this comes down to the user interface and how many keystrokes of what kind you have to make...so if you are used to Furuno you will like their stuff etc. I have to say I think their displays lag behind Ray and Garmin. I like the keystroke sequence NorthStar has used for years- because I am used to it.
I said in the past I would not get an integrated system. Well, I am 2/3 of the way there already and going to add a second display to my 6000i this spring- this stuff gets better and better, cheaper and cheaper.
If Ray, Northstar, Garmin and Furuno ever decide to make marine diesels...watch out

 

[StratPlan61]

I am soon to add a chartplotter w/WAASGPS. I have resisted the 'all-in-one' packages for the reason of segregating systems. My stand alone Furuno RADAR (yes, remember it is an acronymn), Furuno GPS, etc., are more valueable to me because they provide limited-filure vulnerability. Maybe I'm just old-school and don't know it. BUT I have lost RADAR capability and was happy I still had full GPS capability. Although not for the same purpose - the get home comfort of at least having GPS relieved some stress.
I intend to add the Furuno GPS/Chartplotter for driving the autopilot and providing a back-up GPS capability. On those dark night crossing the Gulf of Mexico or the Great Lakes - I want to maintain a constant, very large RADAR image (dimmed way down) while I concentrate on GPS readouts and other information on separate instruments. Information over-load and confusion is too easy with a combination system. Just my opinion, doesn't make it right.

Bear'
1984 61' MY Strategic Plan

 

[Genesis]

You can go where I'm heading - two multifunction systems that duplicate everything EXCEPT Radar.

Two sounders, two plotters, etc.....

 

[Trojan]

I run two Furuno 1721s on the bridge of my 43. I want to install a Furuno in the lower helm. Right now I have a Raymarine 48 mile radar and a Garman GPS. I like the Furuno alot. I went with 2 screens on the bridge because it was easy to install and didn't take up as much viewing room as the 10.4. Plus I did not have to run split screen, it also provided a back up. The best part. It was cheaper,I got both screens for the less than 10.4 cost. I mounted them on pedestals on each side of the wheel. I nav. using a furuno GP32. Very easy. What I don't like is twice in the past year I was caught in heavy storms and the gps lost its positioning and at times when I really needed it. In a very narrow channel. I'm looking to purchase another Furuno for the lower station in a few weeks. Mike 36C if you want to sell your 1721 give me a call. 419-466-5284

Bill

 

[jim rosenthal]

I forgot to mention that one of the best features of the new systems is that they share data up and down the system, so, for example, if one of my Northstar heads quits, the other will still work and can be set up to display all the info and do all the calculations. Now-if I had radar and the antenna quit, I would not have that feature anymore. But I can set up the system with multiple antennas for GPS and multiple displays, plus the depth infor is instantly available all over. Ray, Garmin and Furuno do this as well.
I also have a separate, "dumb" depth sounder....on its' own breaker....just in case

 

[Banshee36]

I personally like seperate systems, If one thing fails then you still have the other. The little 36 does not have the room for too much redunancy. The prices of the combo units seem to be coming down, I have a penchant for bying close out electronics or very clean used electronics for just a fraction of the new cost. It has worked out well for me.
Off to go tuna fishing in NC today.
Have a happy new year.
JW
JW

 

[Capten]

Since we are all such loyal Hatteras fans, we should be purchasing only Nortstar (also Brunswick owned) products....right?

My recent electronics refit included a Northstar 10” 6000i GPS plotter and a Furuno NavNet 10.4” multi-function display with 4kw open array radar, dual frequency color sounder and redundant GPS plotter. The GPS units use Navionics (Gold) software. I only wish the Northstar and Furuno equipment could "talk" to each other and share displays.

I went with these units based on past experience and good advice from my trusted electronics outfitter of over a dozen years. I am very pleased with all of the units but especially the Northstar 6000i. It is a great machine – powerful, easy to use, lots of information, and very much like a paper chart (Navionics Gold). The only thing I might like better is the new 15” display! I hear the new 972 is very nice also.

As far as radar – my understanding is that the higher the power the better the unit’s ability to “punch” through rain and fog. That is what I am really concerned with. It is not so much that a 2kw has 24 mile range, a 4kw has 48 mile, or even a 12kw 72 mile range. Because of the limited height of our antennas and the curvature of the earth, we can only see so far anyway. I would be concerned with 2kw or power for anything other than fair weather night time collision avoidance. I have had radar with 10kw in the past but it was way overkill. 4kw or 6kw seem to get the job done for me in the real nasty stuff or even to locate birds or crab pot floats in fair weather.

With all of that being said, it is very telling that Hatteras Factory Captains almost always select Furuno radar units as equipment for the Hatterascal and other demo boats. I do remember a Hatterascal a few years back that had a full compliment of Northstar equipment including radar. Capt Stansel had mentioned it was a corporate loyalty thing but I noticed that his next boat was back to Furuno. I happen to agree with them and have chosen Furuno over all others for radar and color sounders for over 20 years. Northstar has a nice radar system but IMHO I feel the Furuno is better.

If space or budget is an issue (only going with one display) I would probably go with the Northstar. The 6000i is really that good and if you are not using a color sounder for hardcore fishing and are not a Furuno fanatic like me, you will have a very nice system.

 

[Capten]

Another neat feature to today’s new units is the ability to watch video (TV, DVD, CCTV, etc) on the displays and to also send the information being displayed on the screen to other video/TV displays on board.

I have a TV/DVD system on the bridge that is displayed on my console displays – fun for the crew to watch football games while rockfishing in the bay or to watch “Captain Ron” on the way in from offshore. I am also considering putting a camera in the engine room for monitoring purposes. And if I ever hook up an underwater camera, well......

I also have all of my units hooked up to display their information on the TVs below. It’s great to be able to see where you are or your ETA from the comfort of the salon. It is also very helpful while fishing to be able to access depth, speed, sea temp, and chart info from below without the need for additional electronics.

 

[Nick]

Thanks for all the feedback! certainly came from all directions!

I'll head off to the NY boat show next week and play with the toys before I decide. I think I too am heading down the path of redundant multifunction units step by step.

My old thinking is to stay with a 10 inch CRT stand alone radar but I haven't seen a color unit yet.

Happy New Year to All!

 

[captbuddy]

Mike 36C,
Check your PM.
Thanks,
captbuddy

 

[Mike36c]

Got it Captbuddy. As for redundancy you guys are right on the money. I kept my Furuno 1850 w/ separate transducer and gps when I installed my new C-120 system. On our Third trip to the Bahamas last year the Furuno crapped out on the way over later to find out it was water intrusion (blame one of the hurricanes I guess) and once we arrived home the Raymarine bit the dust too (bad power switch). The raymarine was back in a week fixed under warranty and Furuno a month later. Furuno said the unit was submerged (don't underestimate a hurricane blow!) but replaced the unit, even though it was out of warranty, for nothing. That's customer support! My point is that for a short while I was back to only a compass Murphy gets frequent traveler miles aboard the "Mikey Likes It"

 

[Nick]

Well, I went to the NY show and like the other boat show junkies had a good time and appreciate my old Hat that much more. I fiddled with the various new radar/finder plotter electronics on display by Furuno, Raymaine, Northstar and Simrad. The choices are very difficult. Based on price, user friendliness and screen size I purchased the Raymaine C120 plotter with the 4 KW radome to replace my out of order Raytheon 21XX. I will keep my old 6 inch Standard Horizon as a back up GPS and continue to use my color Furuno depthfider. Next year will probably will add a Raymarine C80 for the Raymarine high definition digital depthfinder and buy the depthfiner black box. The C series unit is not networkable, but later I can swap cables between the C120 and C80 dipslays for the radar, GPS and the transducer to get some level of redundancy.

I plan to install the radome on the aluminum plate bracket of the half tower, soft top on our 37 where the old open array scanner was mounted. There would be no obstructions in the path of the radome scanner. I noticed some installations of the radomes including Karl's, on short struts to raise the radome above the top. Does it improve performance? The manual is not clear on the need for the strut.

Thanks for the previous feedback, the electronics choices can be overwhelming.

Nick

 

[first big boat]

great info here. perhaps you all could give me some advice, I'm in the midst of purchasing a 50 Hatt and want to upgrade all the electronics. I'm thinking about the Furuno GPS 1920 along with the 1944 radar, along with the BBFF3 sounder. oh yes, also a second GPS antenna in case one goes down. I think I covered all the bases for a super radar/chartplotter/fishfinder setup that gives me protection with redundency. any comments or thoughts on anything I may have missed? Thanks!

 

[Capten]

great info here. perhaps you all could give me some advice, I'm in the midst of purchasing a 50 Hatt and want to upgrade all the electronics. I'm thinking about the Furuno GPS 1920 along with the 1944 radar, along with the BBFF3 sounder. oh yes, also a second GPS antenna in case one goes down. I think I covered all the bases for a super radar/chartplotter/fishfinder setup that gives me protection with redundency. any comments or thoughts on anything I may have missed? Thanks!

How many displays do you plan to install and what size? I am a big Furuno fan and think that your choice of radar and sounder are very good. I am not too familiar with the newer NavNet vx2 series that uses C-MapNT+ and NT Max Cartography, but IMHO, the older NavNet Chartplotters are not quite as good as others such as the Northstar 6000i and 972. If space and budget were not an issue (HA!) I would use - and did in 2004 - one 10.4" NavNet display for radar/sounder/back-up chartplotter and one 10" or 15" Northstar 6000i or 972 for my primary chartplotter. We are currently doing this on my buddy's new 48' Cavileer with an additional 10.4" NavNet also.

I was surprised to hear from my trusted marine electronic outfit that the new RayMarine Suite is also very nice. They have traditionally not been proponents Raytheon radars and sounders.

Congrats on the new boat and good luck!