Radar Help

[eze2bme]

My old 1986 Furuno 803D open array has quite working and isn't repairable - SO - I want some advise on a new unit for my 1979 43 DC. My requirements are pretty simple: it will be used on a large inland lake in South Carolina, mostly at night when returning from a day outing, maybe once a month. I have a tablet with a Navionics chart package that works well for location but I like to be able to see other boats at night or in rainy weather. I realize that an open array antenna system shows much greater detail than a closed dish type antennae systems but the open array is considerably more expansive - is the extra detail that much better for my intended use? Who uses a closed dish antennae system and is happy with it? I would prefer the larger 10.4 inch screen size display but I think that's only available with the open array systems. Another big question: since I'm 120 miles away from the coast and away from any installation service, what would be the easiest system to install myself? And one last question: would you buy a used system? Furuno, RayMarine or Garmin?? Any help, ideas, suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Boatnut]

The fact that the atenna is in an encloseure has nothing to do with resolution. If you aren't going to use it to find birds for fishing, and are just watching other boats, and looking for bouys, unless you are worried about high speed boats you need to see further away, a 24 mile unit of close to that should work fine. As for what brand to buy, I always say go look in a marina with a lot of charter boats, and you will see Furuono is the most popular. I don't personally care for the Ray Marine product. I look at Garmin as chart people. Just my opinion though. As for buying used, it's like buying anything used, it's a crap shoot.

 

[MikeP]

I had an old open array Raytheon from when the boat was new - 1980. I wanted an integrated unit to tie in with my Garmin chartplotter so I replaced the Ray with a current Garmin closed type.

The brand new closed Garmin is not even close to the resolution that the 30 year old open array displayed. And I have been kicking myself ever since over the decision I made to "save some money."

This had nothing to do with range or seeing birds, but with seeing other boats and various objects within less than a mile. The open array could easily differentiate objects that the closed array cannot.
Additionally, and maybe more important, the open array functioned very well in heavy rain; the closed array does not. IOW, when you need it the most, it works the worst. If I had it to do over, I would buy a new open array to integrate with the chart plotter OR simply have kept the perfectly operating old system...

But I will never purchase another closed radar antenna - NOTE - it's not the "closed," part that's the issue, it's the size of the antenna itself. I'm sure a 4 ft closed antenna would perform as well as a 4 ft open.

THAT being said, I know other folks seem perfectly happy with the closed antennas so maybe other brands are much superior to the Garmin. As I said, ours works OK in nice weather on a nice day.

 

[Fanfare]

I have read favorable reports on the new broadband radar units. They are said to be much better for very close resolution, virtually coming up to the bow of the boat. These came out a year or two ago, but I recently saw an article in Cruising World or Practical Sailor saying the latest models are much improved. Because they use so little power their long-range abilities are somewhat limited (12 miles or so) but what more do you need on a lake?

Worth a look.

 

[GJH]

I would disregard what has been posted here so far, save for the comment about the newer broadband units.
Before buying this boat we chartered a number of boats with different types of radars. Closed array units can provide outstanding target definition within their range. I suggest you do some searches on The Hull Truth marine electronics forum for a thorough view of the latest. You are pretty handy so I don't see installation being A big deal for you. And nowadays you can look at the install manual before you buy .

Mike it sounds like your unit is not set up and tuned correctly. Nearby target definition should be excellent on that unit.

 

[rsmith]

What George said. Something is definitely wrong with MikeP's garmin. I've had several radars on the boat in the last 37 years the last being an open array furuno with a 4' scanner. About 5 years ago the magnetron crapped out and they wanted almost the price of a newer unit to fix it. At the time I had a garmin 3010c we were leaving for the Bahamas and as a stop gap measure I picked up their 4kw closed array unit. The thing was plug and play and we had it up and running in a couple hours. We run direct from Ft Pierce to Marsh and most of the run is at night. The garmin puts my old furuno to shame. Remember radar is line of sight and the mounting and down angle had a lot to do with the results.

 

[Boatsb]

Ive installed all kinds from 6 foot open arrays to 18" domes.

stay away from the 18" domed. the newer garmin hd 24 domes are not bad. Neither are the raymarine when installed and tuned right but I own a 6 foot open for fishing. Based on how you described the way you will use it I think a large dome or a small open is going to do the job fine. Your choice should be based on how a properly set up unit will function.
but

 

[MikeP]

"Mike it sounds like your unit is not set up and tuned correctly. Nearby target definition should be excellent on that unit."

I can't argue with that. I totally agree with what it "should" do. It's mounted in exactly the samo location/angle as the old Raytheon. As far as tuning...the only adjustments I am aware of are the radar settings on the chart plotter and I've futzed with them extensively. I suppose I may have gotten a bad unit but it functions correctly and, in good weather/calm seas it does OK. But rain/rough seas have a considerable negative affect where the same conditions had very little on the open array - just had to dial in a bit more anti-clutter.

 

[Fanfare]

My 1987 Furuno 48 mile open array color radar (model 903?), which is entirely manually tuned, is my best radar as long as I can get it warmed up and properly tuned before a heavy rainstorm. I have a newer Furuno on the flybridge which is weatherproof. However it tries to do too much fine tuning by itself which often causes it to have too much/little discrimination. While it can be manually tuned this is cumbersome and often seems to default to itself without warning. Its soft buttons only permit tuning on one function at a time. Nice to have at hand since we mostly run the boat from up top, but I do not feel comfortable depending on it. So at night or in storms I run both and run between.

The old one has been successfully repaired one time. When it finally quits I will have to do something, I suppose. Just like the rest of my nav gear which is becoming obsolete. $$$$$$$

 

[dottieshusband]

Anybody got any experience with the new Simrad 4g closed array unit?. Its well reviewed.

 

[Boatsb]

Not for offshore or fishing. Its low power "broadband" like the previous version. If you never leave the icw or rivers its probably all you need.

 

[GJH]

"Mike it sounds like your unit is not set up and tuned correctly. Nearby target definition should be excellent on that unit."

I can't argue with that. I totally agree with what it "should" do. It's mounted in exactly the samo location/angle as the old Raytheon. As far as tuning...the only adjustments I am aware of are the radar settings on the chart plotter and I've futzed with them extensively. I suppose I may have gotten a bad unit but it functions correctly and, in good weather/calm seas it does OK. But rain/rough seas have a considerable negative affect where the same conditions had very little on the open array - just had to dial in a bit more anti-clutter.

Mike, You might try giving Garmin a call for help tuning that thing and reviewing the installation, or consider having someone from Mid-Shore Electronics or another top notch firm come over and check it out. That just shouldn't be happening.

 

[thoward]

I have owned both Garmin and Furuno 4' 12KW open arrays. I give the Furuno a slight edge over the Garmin HD. I can pick individual birds at 6 miles with both. I have used closed array Simrad units and they will easily mark buoys and boats. For a inland lake, I believe a 4kw dome will be fine. For your use, I would look at the Garmin 18HD with a 5212.

 

[eze2bme]

Thanks for all the replies!

 

[bkafitz]

A couple more thoughts on the broadband radars. The new models claim 24 mile range. When cruising, most people use the 4 mile range on one radar and 2 miles on the second radar (for collision avoidance). Since the broadband radars are so much less expensive and easier to install (lightweight antennas, low power requirements) you might give them a second look. The only downside is that the power output is so low - it may not trigger an AIS response. I've not used one in rain either.