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Quick note on waste hose

  • Thread starter Thread starter MikeP
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MikeP

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Dr Jim and I went to the Annapolis boat show earlier today and, based on my recent disgust with Shields XHD sanitation hose I paid particular attention to look at what new boats are using for waste hose. On a new 55ft Fleming and a new 65 ft (can't remember the brand) the waste hose was exhaust/water/bilge hose - the same construction as the Bellowflex that Hatt originally used. One of them had Parker Armada, the current "replacement" for Bellowflex, hose. The other was further away and I couldn't tell but it was black/blue hose. I also learned that Shields also make GOOD waste hose (as opposed to that useless XHD) that's constructed just like Parker Armada except it's white and may not have a wire reinforcement - I didn't notice. So my criticism of "white sanitation hose" should be specifically restricted to Shields XHD which is several orders of magnitude construction-wise below Parker Armada or the "other" white hose that Shields produces.

But whatever you do - don't use Shields XHD sanitation hose for any sanitation needs! ;)
 
The stuff I used was Shieldflex that was white with a green stripe. I didn't use much because most of mine is pvc, but no problems so far. Is that what you think is the "good stuff" or the "bad stuff"?
 
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I have replaced 80% of waste hose on my 43 and the original is wire wound black and that's waht caused the problems, the wire got in contact with the salt water and over time broke down the surface of the hose.
Same issue with gen set exhaust hose, the upper bend before it went out through the hull also got the outer surface perforated due to salt water attacking the wire etc...
 
This is what one gets for shopping price only. a gotta do your homework
 
Well, IMO, you HAVE to shop by price...the highest price is what you want! :)

Yes, I completely agree and I learned that lesson as far as waste hose is concerned. Sadly, I didn't do any real research at the time. I just read that cr@p from Peggy what's-her-name and since she was supposedly an expert I went with her recommendation. Of course, I then discovered that she's only an expert in her own mind though she's seems to have convinced a lot of people. Of course, that's true of a many "experts," but most incorrect advice/info doesn't smell as bad! :)

The hose that doesn't work (for more than a couple of years) is the vinyl white stuff like that shown in the pic here http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...atalogId=10001&page=Marine-Hoses#.UHfvRkKf_zJ I have now noticed that sites that USED to talk about how good it is now say things like, "eventually it will smell." Of course, any hose will eventually smell but the white vinyl on our boat did it in less that two years in the most used head system and throughout the boat in 4. The original 1980 Bellowflex that I replaced with the vinyl actually had cracks in the exterior due to age but NO ODOR. As I have stated before, I replaced it because I ASSUMED (from reading Peggy) that it had to fail soon so I took it out and installed the "proper" sanitation hose. :(
 
Dr Jim and I went to the Annapolis boat show earlier today and, based on my recent disgust with Shields XHD sanitation hose I paid particular attention to look at what new boats are using for waste hose. On a new 55ft Fleming and a new 65 ft (can't remember the brand) the waste hose was exhaust/water/bilge hose - the same construction as the Bellowflex that Hatt originally used. One of them had Parker Armada, the current "replacement" for Bellowflex, hose. The other was further away and I couldn't tell but it was black/blue hose. I also learned that Shields also make GOOD waste hose (as opposed to that useless XHD) that's constructed just like Parker Armada except it's white and may not have a wire reinforcement - I didn't notice. So my criticism of "white sanitation hose" should be specifically restricted to Shields XHD which is several orders of magnitude construction-wise below Parker Armada or the "other" white hose that Shields produces.

But whatever you do - don't use Shields XHD sanitation hose for any sanitation needs! ;)

Almost sounds like the Stuff Dave Captdis has been telling you all for years now :confused:
 
Doing some of this project this winter. Turns out one or both hoses from the tanks to the pump out hole is permeated or cracked. Mike or Sky (or other 53'ers), you guys know where the hose runs go? My pump out holes are stbd side just fed of ER, about at the stairs into galley.
 
"you guys know where the hose runs go?"

I sure do. You know the old saying, I've got some good news and some bad news"?

The bad news is that saying doesn't apply; there is no good news. ;)

Note- all this applies to what I found on my 1980 53MY; who knows if they were all the same...

Both are very challenging. The forward tank is a genuine nightmare. The pumpout hose runs off the rear of the tank and is extremely difficult to get to because you have to wedge yourself between the top of the tank and the underside of the galley sole. Your ability to do that will depend entirely on your personal thickness. Even if you can reach the fitting, you can exert virtually no leverage. It then runs vertically up the hull to the fitting. There is some good news - you have some access through the mirror-fronted cabinet at the dinette. There is a large access panel at the rear of the cabinet. You can reach the clamps that hold the hose but you can't reach the underside of the deck fitting to loosen the hose clamps. There SHOULD be enough slack in the hose to unscrew the deck fitting screws and lift the fitting enough to loosen the hose clamps/pry the fitting off the hose.

Then you can attach a new hose to the old with a suitable fitting and pull it down through while wedged between the tank and galley sole...IF you spray or somehow coat the hose with something that will make it slide. I used dish soap. Having someone help by feeding/pushing/guiding the hose down from above is very helpful. Once you get a few feet of hose pulled in, you can unwedge yourself and kneel at the front end of the tank and pull more effectively.

The aft (genny room) tank was merely a PITA as opposed to a nightmare. It's a shorter run and less strain getting the old hose out/new hose in BUT, I could not successfully attach the old/new hose and pull it through because there was no leverage available to do that. However, my boat has a glendinning cable master and the cable drum sits in a spot that, if vacant, would have allowed me fairly easy access and, I think, plenty of leverage. There is an access panel in my Star eng room that would allow me to physically get inside that space but I don't know if that panel is normally there or if it was cut out when the cable master was installed by the dealer (Hatteras of Lauderdale) prior to deliver to the original owner.

I suspect my explanation is not very clear; I know what I MEAN but whether I can explain it in writing is a different thing. In any case, this is one of those jobs that you NEVER want to do again so buy the best possible hose. Practice up on your swear word vocabulary; you'll be using it extensively. I don't think I found any new swear words during the job but I do think I came up with some combinations that I had never used before... :)
 
Ditto what Mike said. It is not easy to get to and there are about 2 million cushion clamps on it that you cannot reach with screwdriver. Many of them have to be cut to remove.
 
We are ok with what we have which is original on Freedom and she is an '85. We live aboard in the Winters and so far so good. But if I have to flip out the hoses, I am thinking of going PVC.
So what kind of connectors are people using to attach the PVC to the VacuFlush bowls and pumps? Fernco? It's got to be flexible right?
 
I f you have fresh water VacuFlush systems, I see no need for PVC. We have three on board. Five years of virtually full time live aboard and two years of a PO who used the boat a lot. No permeation, including a section of the dreaded Shield XHD vacuum hose that , when I finally remediated an improper PO installation on one system, I had to use a ShopVac to suck some of "rocks" out of (that section before the vacuum tank looked like half a swastika, a no-no). Most of my systems have the high end Sealand hose with some XHD thrown in here and there. Zero issues. I think the freshwater and vacuum combination must be the secret. Maybe if your system retains salt water and "stuff" in the hose for long periods, that leads to permeation problems?
 
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I do know that using any raw water in a waste system will lead to odors. Even on the creek in Kingston NY where it is not salt water. We had a Silverton that used water from over the side to flush. If we did not flush fresh water from the sink afterwards, it wasn't long before odors started. There is too much "life" in raw water to let it sit anywhere.
Converting a boat over to fresh water (dock side or other but NOT from a thru hull) will certainly have a positive affect on the over all odor level. If people are having issues and they use a raw water flush I'd be willing to bet that going to fresh water flush might solve the issue.

My question on the notion of using PVC was based merely on using a cheaper alternative that I installed myself. There are a couple of tight bends in the system and I would rather ensure they don't collapse causing issues. If I go to the trouble of replacing them with a more rigid product like PVC I might just chuck 90% of the system and leave a little hose here and there to enable flex.

By and large over the years we have only had an odor issue when the tank fills more than 50% and the vent filter needs rebuilding because the activated charcoal has become too moist. I built up a vent filter using some PVC and fittings that enable it to be pulled apart and have new charcoal installed.
 
Great.... You guys are full of good news! No glen denning, so hopefully I can reach easier. Can't wait for the fwd tank...
 
Great.... You guys are full of good news! No glen denning, so hopefully I can reach easier. Can't wait for the fwd tank...

Yeah, the only time I ever got stuck and didn't think I could get out was laying on my back on top of that fwd tank. My arms were over my head and couldn't move. Once I got over the initial panic, I was able to get out. Just remember to breath and stay calm.
 
"Once I got over the initial panic, I was able to get out. Just remember to breath and stay calm."

LOL The "stay calm" part is tough! I have come to the conclusion that if you have never actually been stuck or at least seriously concerned that you were stuck, you are not a REAL boat mechanic! :)
 
Umm, yeah... the last few years, as I've gotten a bit bigger in girth, I've begun taking a cell phone with me when I pretzel myself into the engine room. So I can call for help in case I get stuck. I'm not proud. At least I'm not proud enough to die in there.
 
Umm, yeah... the last few years, as I've gotten a bit bigger in girth, I've begun taking a cell phone with me when I pretzel myself into the engine room. So I can call for help in case I get stuck. I'm not proud. At least I'm not proud enough to die in there.


Thats fine if you can actually reach the cell phone. In my case, my arms were stuck above my head and the phone was on my belt clip.
 
You guys are lucky. I have a knee that dislocates and pops back in with a clunk. I get in between the stbd engine pulley and the genny and it pops out. Being 6'4" in a wad with a dislocated knee genuinely sucks.
Eventually it pops back in and I can move again...
 
Umm, yeah... the last few years, as I've gotten a bit bigger in girth, I've begun taking a cell phone with me when I pretzel myself into the engine room. So I can call for help in case I get stuck. I'm not proud. At least I'm not proud enough to die in there.

I take a cell phone AND a saw AND a Dremel tool. My biggest problem is fitting tits into places where normally only men go. I'm not shidding you!
 
I take my son, he is small enough and limber enough to get into just about anywhere. I'm always there with him, but He never seems to get stuck. Call me lazy. LOL
 

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