Planning a complete electronics update on the 53

[RJM]

Our new to us '73 Hatteras 53 (well, waiting on the survey-sea trials) is going to need a serious electronics update. Currently it has no autopilot, a Standard Horizon GPS Chart 1000 C, a Furuno Echo Sounder LS-4100 and an obsolete Raynav-570 Loran C navigator, all of questionable vintage. Also, no radar. I would like to add autopilot and want everything to be integrated. Without breaking the bank-and no, it's not that big of a bank-I would like to make sure that it is tablet and computer integrate-able because I plan to add a PC-based security system using Blue Iris. I've looked at the past posts on this issue but as we all know with electronics, things change rapidly. So, as a start, best way to describe out use is cruising. Not fishermen so don't really need that capability in spades. We plan to take the boat down to our place in Puerto Rico and basically putter around the Caribbean. Our electronics choices should reflect that. Suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[zigzag930]

I would look at the Raymarine Axiom and associated electronics. Pricing seems to be better than Garmin, etc.

In the past, I would have never recommended Raymarine, but I bought a boat last year with Axiom and it is pretty awesome. Since then, I added radar and upgraded my sounder. Everything is networked and simple to use. Updates to firmware are frequent (with new features) and can be done from an internet connect (wireless) between my boat and the house. I love the fact that I can add additional MFD's and all the data is shared between them.

I used the Quantum radar and connected it wirelessly to the MFD. NO issues whatsoever. No cables to run. Just supply 12v and you're done.

Hope this helps....

 

[Photolomy]

So, I have a QNAP NAS and PC installed in my lower helm (inside). The NAS is used to record and store shows and movies and can record security cameras. The PC is connected to my NEMA network which also connects to a digital/analog device that can monitor gauges, bilge pumps etc. All of this is on a network and connected via a Rouge Wave WiFi antenna so I can access it remotely at any time.

Anyways, I am big on having a network, internet, a ship computer etc.

But when it comes to a chart plotter, I couldn't find anything PC based remotely close to a real chart plotter. I don't mean just navigation, but integrated sonar, AIS, radar, etc, etc. When on the water and cruising, my whole world is centered on my Garmin 7610sxv ($2500). The Garmin is located on the lower helm and I access it via an iPad from the flybridge. I also have a 19" monitor attached to it on the lower helm. It is not accessible via a PC, although it does send NEMA data to my ship PC for logging or display, but you can't remotely view and operate it with a PC like you can with the iPad.




I thought chart plotters seemed expensive and they get really expensive the larger you go (marketing), but I am very pleased with the Garmin unit and its capabilities, support and broad compatibility with other Garmin gear. Btw, my radios (helm and fly bridge) are Standard Horizon, but the AIS goes via NEMA to the Garmin unit.

Definitely go with something real, whether it is Garmin, Raymarine or what ever. Raymarine seems to have a more open platform (Axiom). But I get a lot of bang out of my Garmin unit. The only downside is that the larger screens are quite expensive. The rest of the add-ons are actually reasonable.

I should also add that the maps are very good and ActiveCaptain is very useful.

 

[zigzag930]

Photolomy is right about screen sizes.

Seems outrageous when you look at the cost of 16" and larger displays. Even 12" are $$$ compared to 9". Considering the same internals, capabilities, etc. the screen shouldn't create such a cost increase. But it is what it is and all the manufacturers hit you hard for a decent size screen.

I went around and around on PC vs dedicated MFD. Have been doing this for years, even on my 48' sailboat about 10 years ago. I was actually able to get Furuno radar overlayed on my PC's charts back then which was nice. I believe I used MaxSea at that time, but too far back to be sure.

MFD's are the way to go these days. I'm sure that Garmin and others allow screen mirroring on a PC, but I know for sure that Raymarine does as I have mirrored to my android cell phone and tablets (no extra costs involved). Might be nice to have a low cost tablet in the Master stateroom to be able to monitor things on a long passage.

 

[carolinacoast]

Since charts for the US and PR are free, you could build a system around this open platform to avoid proprietary hardware / software.
I have used this as a planning tool and portable navigation for a long time on various boats. Would always just check for chart updates in tidal areas in particular.
https://opencpn.org/

 

[sixty]

All of the big 4 are good so buy whatever you can get the best deal on. I just completely redid all of my electronics on my 60c and went with Simrad. Bought about half of it used for about half the price and then found refurbs where ever I could. I'm into it roughly $16k but would have been $30ish new.

Keep your eyes on thehulltruth classifieds and other fishing & boating boards. With some patience you can save some serious $$

I'll be adding a PC to my system to supplement, mainly because I already have one that can share the screen with my Wesmar sidescan that came with the boat.

 

[miboatnutz]

Since charts for the US and PR are free, you could build a system around this open platform to avoid proprietary hardware / software.
I have used this as a planning tool and portable navigation for a long time on various boats. Would always just check for chart updates in tidal areas in particular.
https://opencpn.org/

Actually installing a system on our boat right now as part of a major electronics upgrade that uses Opencpn, a small Windows 10 mini-pc and an ELO 21 inch touchscreen monitor with everything running off of 12VDC from one of the original Newmar converters under the helm station. PC is the size of two packs of cigarettes and mounts to the back of the monitor which in turn is mounted on a swing arm for adjustment over a wide viewing range just to port of the helm station.

I installed a suite of garmin electronics two years ago including wind, depth and autopilot up and down, but no chartplotters, with all of it connected over a single NMEA network. Going to add a Garmin 7608 chartplotter at the main helm mostly to run the autopilot and use the Windows machine for route planning, cameras, and basically ships computer for storing maintenance data electronically.

Also purchased a Yacht Devices NMEA Wifi router so I can push all that data out onto a wireless network.

https://www.yachtd.com/products/wifi_router.html

For the rest of the boat, I purchased two Dell 7202 rugged laptops to use mostly on the bridge and as back ups. They're running Opencpn which is capturing all of the ship's data wirelessly from the NMEA network. I'm installing Ram mounts on the bridge and the forward cabin to hold the tablets. When not in use, they're put away in the forward cabin always on charge and ready to go.

Also purchased a precision GPS sensor that's connected directly to the Windows PC in addition to each of the tablets which have their own internal GPS sensor (Ublox). Call me eccentric, but I'm very worried about eventually getting spoofed, so I also purchased a Digital Yachts Trinav GPS sensor that feeds position data from three satellite systems to the NMEA network.

Lastly, I installed a standard 802/ethernet router to move all the data around. It too is 12VDC, so I installed it in the cabinet space above the helm bench.

 

[wallison]

Looked at em all and went with Raymarine Axiom pro. Super happy with the system, was very easy to install once you get the cables fished. Runs multiple networks (Ethernet, NMEA 2000, 0183). Raymarine uses their own cable standards which vary from NMEA, etc but adapter cables fix the problem. Questions I can’t answer are durability (only live for a couple of weeks) and interoperability as I went entirely Raymarine with the exception of a few NMEA2000 based devices (e.g. Fusion audio system which plugged and played). I bought my MFDs as “factory refurbished” which saved a lot of money.

 

[RJM]

Wow. Thank you all for the replies, showing me your setups and giving suggestions. It's a lot to digest at the moment but I am sure that I will have tons of questions as I delve into the research. My sense is that I should start with the Autopilot addition as the base. I have looked at the Garmin GHC 20 setup with their SmartPump as a possible way to go. Any thought here would be great, or do you have a better starting point?

Again, thanks.

 

[miboatnutz]

We have the Garmin GHC20 with smart pump. Works excellent. Just have to be mindful of where to install the heading sensor so you don't get magnetic interference.

 

[Wilson]

Was in a similar situation when we bought our 58 MY. Needed an autopilot and chart plotter. Radar was an older Furuno, but it still worked well. I have been using the Navionics I pad app and I love it. Wanted a plotter system to accept the Navionics charts. I selected Simrad. Bought the EVO 3
12 in Plotter, and the NEC-3 core pack autopilot. With the RPU -300 pump. I love the system.
I use my I pad to load routes , the system syncs automatically to the Simrad. I select the route and the autopilot follows route. All installed without too much difficulty, pump interfaced with hydraulic
steering easily. I have since added the NAC.500 AIS to the system.. the u it has a HDMI output that I use to run. Large monitor in the pilot house. I am sure. down the road I will add radar to this system. I checked prices on line and think I am all in now for maybe $5-6,000.

great solution for us..

 

[tomrealest]

I am facing the same situation after owning my 58 for 18 years. First if you get rid of that CP-1000 I would like it. I have 2, one up and one down and one of them is on the blink.
I am not computer savvy at all so a lot of the comments on this thread intimidate me. I will eventually have to get a new GPS for up and down stations. I have run in rough seas on occasion, hopefully I have grown out of that, so a computer on the flybridge is a no go in my opinion. 15 or 20 years ago I thought the Raytheon were difficult to run. Everyone that has Garmin loves them, but like it’s been said, the bigger screens for old eyes are very expensive.
I appreciate the replies. They are very helpful since I will face the same issue in the near future.

 

[Boatsb]

I sell a bunch of garmin 12" touch screen systems without sounders for $2699. I also add in the additional system interconnects to make it functional.


The misconception that you can build a computer to do the same for less is almost funny.. its all in the integration at a systems level. Autopilot, RADAR, Sirius weather, sounder and chart plotter working as a team.

Save time and let the experts do the hard part. I know its hard to admit the system you have is not the best ever made but thats just the facts. For multiple screens in a 2 station boat you don't need to spend $25k to have a fully functional system.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I just installed all new Garmin on my boat. 1242 for the lower helm, 922 upper. Garmin 126 broadband radar, garmin sounder. Love it.

 

[miboatnutz]

I sell a bunch of garmin 12" touch screen systems without sounders for $2699. I also add in the additional system interconnects to make it functional.


The misconception that you can build a computer to do the same for less is almost funny.. its all in the integration at a systems level. Autopilot, RADAR, Sirius weather, sounder and chart plotter working as a team.

Save time and let the experts do the hard part. I know its hard to admit the system you have is not the best ever made but thats just the facts. For multiple screens in a 2 station boat you don't need to spend $25k to have a fully functional system.

1. Windows based OpenPC integrates pretty much seamlessly once set up properly with any NMEA 2000 network and that INCLUDES Garmin. In addition, with a radar software plug in and an ethernet adapter available from many electronics stores online, the software can receive radar data either directly or indirectly from a Garmin HD unit.

2. As mentioned, I'm running the PC software on two 7202 Dell Rugged Tablets that carry an IP65 rating. That's actually a HIGHER rating for shock, water intrusion and dust than any Garmin chartplotter, as they're rated at IPX7.

Take a look at this video and tell me if you think a Garmin MFD/chartplotter can take the same abuse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l04YRSUTwjE

3. The only thing I can't do from the PC is run the autopilot and I'd want to keep that separate anyway for purposes of safety and redundancy. Other than that the "integration at the systems level" you speak of is the same. I can push and pull NMEA data sentences back and forth between the PCs', the Garmin devices, AIS and my Standard Horizon radios.

As mentioned, I have no problem with Garmin as their products serve me well and form the backbone of navigation systems on three of the four boats I own, but it's not necessarily the ONLY solution. The other thing to keep in mind with Garmin is their planned obsolescence. They do not support any of their MFD/chartplotters five years after a model goes out of service. Period. As far as I know, there are no third party repair sources for Garmin Marine electronics - so they got you!

Don't be bashing PC, Android or Apple based solutions for marine navigation without having your facts straight first.

 

[Photolomy]

I don't sell boat stuff, am a software engineer and love networking things. But I think comparing a PC solution to a Garmin or Raymarine or other commercial system is like comparing a home built tablet to an iPad. The only reason you would use a PC solution instead of using a commercial system is because you want to build a PC solution, not because it is better, cheaper or even comparable. The only thing that drew me to a PC solution was screen size, but then you give up just about everything else. You give up the best maps, the best sonar, the best overlay features, fusion, plug-n-play, etc, etc, etc. And if we are talking 10" or 12" size, a commercial chart plotter is about the same price as setting up the PC version, and that isn't including your time to set it up and fuss with it. And with the commercial system, you get everything as well as backward and forward compatibility. But building your own is neat to, but not really comparable. I don't think this is bashing PC systems. It is just saying what it is.

 

[zigzag930]

I have a few questions about your PC setup.

1) Do the two PC's communicate and share information between them? Is that even necessary if both can read all the devices on the network? ie if Radar is connected, is it connected to one of the PC's or does it connect to the network so either machine can see it?

2) How do sounders work? Do they just provide depth as a number or can you show the bottom contours, side vision, etc?

3) What other things (if any) don't work on the PC setup the same as on networked dedicated MFD's.

I ask because I was thinking of replacing a couple of Garmin 4212/4208's and associated equipment with new MFD's. Instead, I might try running a Raspberry pi4 with a OpenCPN distribution designed specifically for that hardware (no Windows for me). The Pi4 can support two HDMI monitors for workspace so that would be awesome int the pilothouse. Extremely low power consumption, usb3, network and wifi built in and two HDMI ports. I would need to find a nice flush mountable touch screen display 12" or larger (preferably 16") that are 12v and bright enough to see in daylight.

You got me thinking about this again..... (been about 8 years since I last attempted it, with limited success).

J

You don't know what you're talking about and your comments are self serving. Honestly, I don't know why they let you continue to post on this site when you're on here selling your products and services routinely - but hey whatever. I'm not the administrator of this site.

Now let me give you the FACTS.

1. Windows based OpenPC integrates pretty much seamlessly once set up properly with any NMEA 2000 network and that INCLUDES Garmin. In addition, with a radar software plug in and an ethernet adapter available from many electronics stores online, the software can receive radar data either directly or indirectly from a Garmin HD unit.

2. As mentioned, I'm running the PC software on two 7202 Dell Rugged Tablets that carry an IP65 rating. That's actually a HIGHER rating for shock, water intrusion and dust than any Garmin chartplotter, as they're rated at IPX7.

Take a look at this video and tell me if you think a Garmin MFD/chartplotter can take the same abuse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l04YRSUTwjE

3. The only thing I can't do from the PC is run the autopilot and I'd want to keep that separate anyway for purposes of safety and redundancy. Other than that the "integration at the systems level" you speak of is the same. I can push and pull NMEA data sentences back and forth between the PCs', the Garmin devices, AIS and my Standard Horizon radios.

As mentioned, I have no problem with Garmin as their products serve me well and form the backbone of navigation systems on three of the four boats I own, but it's not necessarily the ONLY solution. The other thing to keep in mind with Garmin is their planned obsolescence. They do not support any of their MFD/chartplotters five years after a model goes out of service. Period. As far as I know, there are no third party repair sources for Garmin Marine electronics - so they got you!

Don't be bashing PC, Android or Apple based solutions for marine navigation without having your facts straight first.

 

[Boatsb]

You don't know what you're talking about and your comments are self serving. Honestly, I don't know why they let you continue to post on this site when you're on here selling your products and services routinely - but hey whatever. I'm not the administrator of this site.

Now let me give you the FACTS.

1. Windows based OpenPC integrates pretty much seamlessly once set up properly with any NMEA 2000 network and that INCLUDES Garmin. In addition, with a radar software plug in and an ethernet adapter available from many electronics stores online, the software can receive radar data either directly or indirectly from a Garmin HD unit.

2. As mentioned, I'm running the PC software on two 7202 Dell Rugged Tablets that carry an IP65 rating. That's actually a HIGHER rating for shock, water intrusion and dust than any Garmin chartplotter, as they're rated at IPX7.

Take a look at this video and tell me if you think a Garmin MFD/chartplotter can take the same abuse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l04YRSUTwjE

3. The only thing I can't do from the PC is run the autopilot and I'd want to keep that separate anyway for purposes of safety and redundancy. Other than that the "integration at the systems level" you speak of is the same. I can push and pull NMEA data sentences back and forth between the PCs', the Garmin devices, AIS and my Standard Horizon radios.

As mentioned, I have no problem with Garmin as their products serve me well and form the backbone of navigation systems on three of the four boats I own, but it's not necessarily the ONLY solution. The other thing to keep in mind with Garmin is their planned obsolescence. They do not support any of their MFD/chartplotters five years after a model goes out of service. Period. As far as I know, there are no third party repair sources for Garmin Marine electronics - so they got you!

Don't be bashing PC, Android or Apple based solutions for marine navigation without having your facts straight first.

I'm sorry if I crushed your dreams.

The PC systems will not equal the reliability, flexibility and integration of a purpose built device. Nor will a home built unit. If you are trying to justify your choice thats understandable but don't lead others to the wrong conclusions.

Integrated multiple screen system's are far beyond the capabilities of a pc. Run in worse conditions and are upgraded constantly.

5 years isn't a long time and the old gear in many of our boats runs longer. Theres less repair issues with the MFD screens than computers by the way.

 

[racclarkson@gmail.com]

Me being the electronic wiz I am, I gotta agree with Scott if for just one reason. When your Garmin radar or your Raymarine sounder or maybe even your Simrad pilot develop a problem, you’ve essentially absolved the manufacturer of responsibility when you’ve taken their product out of their network. No matter what the problem, ‘sounds like it’s a PC problem,’ is their starting point. Translation: Welcome to Catch 22 land.

 

[Boatsb]

And by the way.

I do design, drawings and technical support for members who buy the gear from me. Its a good deal for members who want to do their own installation.