Paint Sealant vs Wax???

[emarn]

My Hatteras, like probably most owners, has been painted with a two part epoxy paint, either Imron, Awlgrip or in my case, Awlcraft 2000. I brought our boat to Florida 2 years ago and continue to hear from the "experts" such as Yacht Cleaning Companies and Florida Yard Managers that "UV waxing" is critical if I wish to keep the paint on my boat, given the sun's intense UV and high heat in this neck of the ocean.

US Paint, whom I believe manufactures Awlgrip/Awlcraft, states that "wax" should never be used... instead "Awlwash" and "Awlcare" are the only recommended treatments. However, the "experts" I refer to say that these products are costly, highly ineffective and that either Fleetwax or a Paint Selant from "Pro" are the only way to go. Who should I believe???

Any direct knowledge or actual experience on this subject would be GREATLY appreciated!!!

 

[MikeP]

I can speak with some experience re Imron though not awlgrip. Waxing Imron will NOT do anything useful. It will eventually dull the finish due to the coats of wax. Our 15 year old Imron on the boat has never been waxed, only washed and OCCASIONALLY treated with 3m Finesse-it II (maybe once every two years). It still looks new. I used to do a lot of painting with Imron; I have a friend in Memphis with a Sunbeam Tiger that I Imroned for him in 1978. It still has that paint and still looks like it was just applied - also never waxed. THat's nearly 30 year old paint!!!! Admittedly, the car is always garaged when not running but he still drives it regularly.

THe sealer, like awlcare, is useful becuase it doesn't dull the finish like wax eventually will but it makes the finish more slippery so dirt doesn't adhere as easily, making it easier to keep clean.

Since Awlgrip is also a two part paint, like Imron, I would expect the same to be true re care. It's important to remember that the main thing wax does is fill little imperfections so the paint seems smoother and glossier. Imron is glossier than the wax you would be putting over it.

 

[Boatsb]

Wax does not cause Imron to dull over time. wax Buildup does. Wax on imron is like chicken soup and a cold. No one will swear it helps but can't show it hurts either.

Imron seals itself when it cures so the wax only coats the sealed layer. It will however smooth out some minor scratches and I would say acid rain and soot would be better on the way than the paint.

 

[MikeP]

Studies have shown that-chicken soup IS good for colds (see below). Studies have also shown that wax is NOT good for Imron. You are right - it's not the wax hurts the paint - the buildup, as you mentioned, causes the dullness. So stripping the wax will restore the imron to it's original gloss. So why dull the Imron in the first place. It is essentially unaffected by environmental issues that would seriously mess up the wax. Acetone, for example, just cleans Imron, it will not do ANYTHING at all to the paint. Why in the world would you put wax on such a paint?


Re Chicken soup:

"scientists have put chicken soup to the test, discovering that it does seem to help relieve cold and flu symptoms in two ways. First, it acts as an anti-inflammatory by inhibiting the movement of neutrophils — immune system cells that participate in the body's inflammatory response. Second, it temporarily speeds up the movement of mucus through the nose, helping relieve congestion and limiting the amount of time viruses are in contact with the nose lining. Researchers at the University of Nebraska compared homemade chicken soup with canned versions and found that many, though not all, canned chicken soups worked just as well as soups made from scratch"

 

[Paul45c]

I've had a fair amount of personal experience with waxes and sealers in Florida; my summary is that wax is ok for gelcoat, but don't use it on the poly paints. You'll get black streaks something terrible in a lot of cases, and when you do you'll need more wax (and sometimes polishes) to get them out.

The sealers seem to progressively get shinier and shinier if you apply them often enough. No hard rubbing, and the Awlcare products seem to work well. There are others, too.

I used to do the polishing & waxing myself, but I've got a guy detailing my boat these days that claims it's best to aim for a product that "cures" slowly -- the stuff that immediately will dry to a white haze is not what you're looking for. He claims that the slower curing products are gentler on the paint and tend to raise more shine. FWIW, it looks great. I'll see in a year or two.

Lastly, my painter also told me not to do the waxes for the same reason given -- they're a dirt trap.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

As stated by others, wax-no, sealer-yes. I have tried wax and it just leads to black streaks since it holds the dirt. My original Imron is 22 years old and it looks great, but it looks even better after a sealer coat. I have used the Awlcare and it works fine but it is pricey. I prefer the Starbrite polish with Teflon. It goes on easily and really seems to help keep the boat clean. The water beads up on it and washing seems to take much less effort.

 

[Mike36c]

I'm in S. FL and my boat was painted with Awlcraft 2000, so far the Alwgrip cleaning and sealer products have held up nicely to the summer sun. I seal the hull sides once a year and the house etc. twice. The stuff isn't cheap but seems to be of good quality.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

I actually asked the tech rep at Hatteras. He suggested "3M Finessit II". I have used that for 3 years , once annually. Our original Imron looks just like new and we don't get the black streaks. This year I am going to try another 3M product that is said to be a "foam pad polishing glaze". My pollishing friend likes it better than "FinessitII" as it doesn't dry to a powder and can be worked longer.

 

[chris piazza]

I agree with Sky. I use the Awlcare sealer, two coats before launch in the spring and its good for the season. I forget how much is in a bottle, maybe 16oz, but it goes a long way. Found it on-line for 15.95 but they wanted 20.00 for shipping because its a hazardous material! Had Boaters World order it for me and payed 19.95 out the door.

Chris
Superior Nights 53C

 

[exsailor]

Sky

Let me cry "foul"!!!!
Your craft has spent a major portion of it's life in a boathouse! No wonder it shines so good!

Just jealous

ByronS

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Sky

Let me cry "foul"!!!!
Your craft has spent a major portion of it's life in a boathouse! No wonder it shines so good!

Just jealous

ByronS

You have nothing to be jealous of Byron. Your ED is in beautiful shape and I'm sure she will be even nicer when you finally get your personal touches completed.

I will admit that my paint has not seen much sun, but it looks even better after a coat of polish. And it cleans up much easier too.

 

[Plan B2]

WOW!,
This is all new to me. I use Fleetwax on my current boat and love it. After reading this post I am more comfortable with my selection of the next boat wich is planned to be much bigger and wear the Hatteras badge proudly. No more waxing, Yea!
I agree that wax is a dirt trap and causes black steaks. For the fisrt year after a fresh application I see them regularly. Apparently the sealers mentioned don't have that same affect on the poly painted surfaces.

 

[emarn]

Based on this feedback I'm going to use the Awlcare Sealer products and I'll stay away from "wax"!

What got this started was noticing that after four (4) years the Awlcraft finish was loosing it's "slipperiness" and some of its original luster, and began to wonder how to protect if further (if possible) from the UV rays. My boat is outside 365 days a year (no boat house for me... I wish!), however it gets washed properly every 2 weeks and after EVERY use (I know this for sure because I do it myself). I guess I just need to resign myself to the fact that the Florida sun is a whole different ballgame from my 30 year experience with New England sun on paint finishes!

Thanks to all for the replies... they have been really helpful!!!http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

[dastahl]

Imron and other polyurethanes do benefit from occasional polishing and surface treatments like wax or sealants (good luck telling which are which).

All paints even the urethanes surface oxidize and products like 3M Finesse-It™ II polish the oxides, old wax/sealants and dirts off the film. Waxes do attract dirt. Some of the new sealants with Teflon are getting better reviews for less streaking. Waxes are getting better as well. As stated in previous posts you need to polish off excess wax, but that goes for the sealants as well, then you apply more.

Wax/sealants do have UV inhibitors to help protect the film from the sun. I’ve seen hundreds of FL sun tests and wax/sealants with UV inhibitors help the film retain gloss. That would be all films.

The paint film also retains gloss much longer if washed regularly. Dirt holds moisture and acids from pollution both of which chew on the film. If you keep the boat washed you need to polish less.

I have not found out directly why US paint has put their foot down against polishing. My guess is that they want you to use their own sealants and oxide remover products and promote use by the ship yards that handle them. Or may be they wish for you to re-paint more often.

I wash the boat as much as I can and I use Finesse-It™ II and then Maguire’s best car wax, every couple three years. Skooch is painted with International’s two part urethane. I didn’t use Imron because I no longer like Dupont.

BTW: I was product manager for Dupont Imron Industrial Finishes for 5 years in the late 80s, and the gentleman that invented Imron lives next door.

Skooch
42 LRC 401
Worton Creek MD

 

[labrador]

Hope you don't take that out on your neighbor!

 

[Boat Kings Detailing]

I live in the South Florida area and I own a Yacht Detailing company. With my experience working on different Hatteras' and Viking sport fishermans that are awlgrip coated it is imperative to high speed buff with Perfect it I thru III on a yearly basis. use a polymer wax that lasts longer in the South Florida Heat. I do vouch 100% for awlcare products that work great but they cost alot. And let me say that ive been doing this long enough to know that wax does not dull your painted surface one bit. I deal with boats of all kinds on a daily basis and all wax does is add a layer of protection from acid rain and pollutants. If anybody has questions feel free to take a look at my website or you can give me a call as well to discuss matters further.

boatkingsdetailing.com

 

[MikeP]

I have no experience with awlgrip at all but a lot with Imron. I started using it (spraying) around 1976 or thereabouts - cars and motorcycles and a couple of airplanes. At the time, Dupont specifically stated in the maint instructions that waxing it would reduce it's shine and attract dirt. So we never waxed Imron.

In 1994 the PO repainted our 53 with Imron because he wanted the "new" Hatt off white color. He never waxed it and I have never waxed it. When freshly washed, the boat always gets a comment like, "did you just get it resprayed?" People are shocked when I tell them the finish is 16 years old. When people at the marina ask what kind of wax I use to keep it looking like that they are even more surprised when I tell them it has never been waxed.

I am not trying to argue for or against wax on Imron, just stating what my experience has been with it. I notice that now Dupont seems to recommend treatment where previously they did not. But I have not looked at the instructions for the different formulations of Imron that exist today. Back when I was actively spraying it, I don't believe there was more than one type of Imron; now there seem to be several and I have no idea of the differences between the different formulations. the difference between the current formulations and the original one, and the reason that surface treatments are now suggested when previously they were specifically discouraged.

 

[Angela]

A local boat detailer, knowing the DIY person that I am and that I was not a potential customer, taught me his tricks and secrets. He told me that he waxes boats because detailing is what he does for a living. Waxing keeps him coming back every 3 months and that keeps him in business. When I told him I didn't want wax because polishing with Finesse-It lasted a year, he quietly agreed, smiled, and reminded me that he waxing keeps him coming back often and that's how he earns a living.

The yard waxed my hull from the rubrail down last Fall. Looked great at first, but after a few months, it's dull. Prior to that, my 30-year-old paint was still shining. Now, I've got to remove that wax and go back to what lasts - polishing; no wax.

Having tested both theories on my boat, and now knowing what lasts and what doesn't, I will not wax.

 

[rsmith]

I gota disagree that the Imron isnt porous. We fish the boat pretty hard and it gets beat up by rod buts hooks gaffs etc. So I buzz the cockpit up and paint it with Imron every 2 years(the advantage of having the boat in your back yard and having compressed air lines piped to the dock). If I keep the tackle center and under gunnel areas waxed the rust stains and fish blood and guts wash right off with a little elbo grease. If the wax is dead I have to use soft scrub with a brush. Seems that the stains soak in to the paint unless its sealed with something. The advantage with Imron is it can be wet sanded and touchups blended in easier than awlgrip.
I use a StCrois HVLP set up with a turbine compressor ( I have a lot of friends that build homebuilt airplanes that use this setup) virtualy no overspray but it does orange peel pretty bad and requires wetsanding to make it look pretty.Ive tried reducers to get it to flow better but the longevity of the paint seems to suffer.

 

[MikeP]

"So I buzz the cockpit up and paint it with Imron every 2 years"

I don't understand that at all; regular old acrylic lacquer should easily last a lot longer than 2 years! I shot a car with acrylic lacquer in 1975 that still looked like new in 1990 when I sold it and it was never garaged - yes, I did wax that one periodically!