open vs central listing?

[nor'easter]

I have had my boat listed with a reputable broker for 12 months now. Another broker walked by just as I was washing NE'r down at the end of the day today, and asked if he could list the boat and convert it to an open listing.
I know that things are pretty flat in the market for boats now, but wanted to get thoughts from the forum on whether this is a good idea or not. Are there any major downsides? Thanks for the input.

 

[SeaEric]

I'm a broker. I will give you the answer from my standpoint. A central listing is one to which I will devote my hard earned advertising dollars. The central listing makes me the "go to guy" expert for that boat with other brokers. I can represent your best interests as my client to procure the highest and best legitimate offer in writing. The relationship is between you the customer and me the broker. You have the final say as to the accuracy of the boat specs and methods I employ in the marketing efforts.

The downside of an open listing is having multiple brokers with duplicate internet listings for the same boat giving the appearance of desperation. No one is really dedicated to the sale of your boat, they're just throwing a bunch of $#!& against the wall, hoping that something will stick. In that case, you'd be better off with your own ad on Trader Online and let individual brokers come directly to you one at a time with their potential buyer. I would warn against signing an open listing. It removes all of your control over how your boat is described and marketed.

Price and condition are the biggest elements in a successful sale of a boat. Your boat looks very nice on YachtWorld and from my East Coast perspective, seems to be priced right. I will admit that I know nothing about the current market conditions or the attractivness of your model boat to the West Coast market.

One month ago we sold the same model, but a 1998 (the last 39' hull built) for $280,000. here in Maryland.

You may want to consider sticking with your current broker for a while longer. He looks like he's representing you fairly.

 

[nor'easter]

Thanks Eric,
I share your thought process. Some of the boats that I have seen on YW with open listings look tired, and the adds are not good quality. This obviously reflects poorly on the boat. I have also seen some advertised here or on other forums by the owner, as well as listed on yachtworld with a broker, and this does look deperate.
I am enjoying my boat, and will continue to do so and keep her well maintained. I think the problem for me is that open/express boats are a little less popular here in socal, and almost noone knows that Hatt made one....I didn't until I almost tripped over NE'r.
Thanks for you perspective.

 

[Liquid Asset]

I am also a broker. But I can not say it any better than SeaEric. You get much better representation from a broker when you are on a Central.

 

[Genesis]

I'll give you my perspective as someone who recently sold his 45C....

One of the problems with a central - or any other listing - is that there are so few REPUTABLE and GOOD brokers out there. There are a LOT of boat brokers, and the huge majority of them are unfit to sell you a pack of matches, say much less a boat. Some are lazy but even worse, some are actively dishonest (e.g. claiming a boat is being brokered when it is really THEIR TRADE-IN, etc)

Second, its quite hard to have a boat properly represented by a broker UNLESS they are local to the boat. Yes, there are a lot of centrals (and opens) where this is not the case, but how does a broker ACCURATELY represent your boat if they've never set foot on it? I argue that they CANNOT. I'd further argue that said broker REALLY ought to go out for an hour-long cruise (or better, a day of fishing!) with you on board BEFORE taking the listing, but I know that's going to draw guffaws. Nonetheless, how the boat runs, how it rides - what it IS - is best experienced IN PERSON.

Third, different brokers have different "niches". In the marketplace people have a "view" of what different brokerages represent. For instance, there's a brokerage here that is seen by most as being "focused" on the 2-3 year old (or brand new) larger fishing boat - the Cabos and Bertrams 2001-02 and newer. Will they accept a listing on something else? SURE! Are they the "right broker" for that listing? Quite possibly NOT, even if they're competent and honest - because it just isn't their specialty - they're not the "go to" people for that sort of sale.

So, with this in mind, you have a few problems - you need not only a GOOD broker, you need the RIGHT good broker for what you're selling. If you don't have that then you're going to get a less-than-great representation - and for 10%, by God, you ought to get full effort and the best representation possible.

IF you can sell it yourself - and put the effort into that - then you can consider this option as well. Realize that this will often lead to a low offer compared to a brokerage listing, BUT the final number will likely be the same - since there's no commission, and your marketing costs may be far lower.

If you don't have the time or desire to do it on your own, then you need to find someone you're COMFORTABLE with. There is one brokerage I know personally that I trust, and Eric seems like a good guy and knowledgeable too. Were I in either of those two people's neighborhoods, I'd be ok with them having a central on a boat I was selling.

Opens can work, but they can also be disasters. If you have ONE broker with an open, that can be ok - you have the ONE broker with an open BUT you do your own marketing as well, and whoever gets the buyer first does.

The trouble comes in when you have four or five brokers with opens on the same boat, there's 4 or 5 listings on YW, they're all obviously (if someone looks) the same boat, and now people get the feeling that you're in trouble - whether you are or not.

IMHO open listings have a purpose - to get you exposure you can't otherwise get with you running your own marketing campaign for the boat in parallel. If you're NOT going to do your own marketing of the boat on your own, then find someone who meets the criteria above - if you can - and do a central.

The other thing I've come to understand with boat sales in the "larger" (more than a 26' CC) arena is that basically one of two things happens:

1. You get an almost-immediate offer and activity after you list her. That means someone was looking for YOUR boat, and you happened to get lucky in that regard. That offer is likely to be lower than you'd like, BUT consider this - if you take it your carrying costs end RIGHT THERE. Many sellers turn that offer down flat, or counter only slightly off their original ask and the deal goes "boom" on the spot. Add back one full year of carrying cost (slip if applicable, insurance, maintenance, depreciation if a newer boat, etc) and figure out how much you're REALLY leaving on the table if you say "no.".

2. Your boat will take 6-12 months to sell. In today's market, it may take longer. Especially in the midrange, the market is quite soft. Its not disasterously bad, but its definitely not "hot" either.

If you've been at it for 12 months and still own her, I'd strongly consider where your asking price is. Normally, within a year, if you're asking price is within 10-20% of what someone is willing to pay, you will have drawn offers.....

At a glance I'd say the listing price you're at is reasonable, but I can't speak to local market conditions. Much depends on them - if a buyer, for example, can't find a place to keep the boat or can't get insurance at any rational price, then it doesn't matter what sort of price you put on it - he has to be able to solve those problems first, and that does severe damage to your effort to sell....

 

[luckydave215]

Crow's Nest

I've seen Paul's boat, and I've closed a deal with the brokerage he's using. In this particular case, you have the right brokerage for nor'easter.

 

[nor'easter]

This is my first larger (for me) boat sale, and I just wanted to make sure that I was thinking about this in a reasonable way.
Unfortunately, I do not have the time to sell my boat on my own and need the help of a broker. When I was getting ready to put her on the market, I interviewed a few brokers here, on the boat, before I decided who I was going to list with. I have a good relationship with the current broker, and they have been advertising the boat and have put a great listing on YW.com.
The boat is listed at a fair market price, given it's valuation on BUC in comparison to other listings. This is an odd model for Hatteras, as it had a short production run and is not well known....even though it is well regarded. I might have the only one on the west coast as far as I know. I think that is the primary issue. Most folks looking for a boat like mine are probably searching for a Tiara or other like boats, and only by getting it more exposure will selling it happen faster. That is what drove this question, but I think I knew the answer before I asked it.

 

[(Nobody You Know)]

"Add back one full year of carrying cost (slip if applicable, insurance, maintenance, depreciation if a newer boat, etc) and figure out how much you're REALLY leaving on the table if you.."

Not to mention a boat that is now worth less than last year! When I was a broker I saw a lot of this with FSBO's mostly on the small boats. They think because they take care (average) of their boat and/or "I rebuilt the port engine last year", or "we recarpeted the salon", their goddess of the sea is worth more than comparables of same. Inveriably, next year the Admiral finally gets her way but now it's on the market at "market" pricing, which is always lower, and with a brokers sign hanging from railing!

Capt'n Bill

 

[garyd]

Having worked in the Marine industry in a former life and actively selling Hatt's, Bert's, Vikings, Sea ray, etc etc etc. All under one roof I can tell you what helps a yacht sell.

The number one item that helps any yacht sell is having everything spit polish clean. It works for the skipper and it works for the admiral. Sometimes it won't get you a buch more money. Sometimes it will. But it will do two (2) distinct things: Number one it will sell faster, Number two you will not have to lower or negotiate your selling price if you set it correctly.

I am and was astounded by owners that try to sell their yacht with dirt and filth everywhere. I had many a person come to me and say help! And then ask what they could do to get er sold. I would explain that they should clean every nook and cranny. If you could pick up a hatch underneath that hatch it should be spotless. Several took my advice and the transformation for dirty to clean made a world of difference. The boat or Yacht always sold fairly quickly after the clean up.

I never asked a owner to dump his price but rather to invest in the yacht to bring up to snuff. It's one of those thing in life "THAT JUST FLAT WORKS". Not every owner will follow this simple advice.

If I was showing a vessel and it was in the larger class I would make sure it was ship shape. All the lights would be set, the a/c would be on, the stereo on a nice station. I would also spend some decent money and add fresh flowers in several locations on the Yacht. Never did the loaf of bread in the oven but usually brought something that made the Yacht feel like home. Does it work yep!

Not many brokers ever put this kind of thought into selling your vessel so you have to do it for them.

Most brokers meet you at the vessel try to get the door unlocked with you waiting. The boat is hot, usually messy stereo and TV is off, your not allowed to touch anything or start the boat or tun on the electronics. As I said all this would up and running I usually let the prospective buyer start the engines from cold and let them warm up under their supervision. To truely sell a Yacht is art and science. Most boat salesmen parade around a buyer hoping to light on the right vessel and then somehow get a deposit and work through a sale.

Ask the broker how he/she intends to market and sell your boat. If they look at you with a da wha ya mean look get another broker. They should have a plan of attach and they should know how to ask for the order. Ask them how many they have sold and then ask to speak to the people they sold. You can pretty much get a feel what is real and what is BS.

Each sale has to be a win, win, win situation. When it is everything works.

Good luck selling Her and have fun boating garyd

 

[bobk]

If I was showing a vessel and it was in the larger class I would make sure it was ship shape. All the lights would be set, the a/c would be on, the stereo on a nice station. I would also spend some decent money and add fresh flowers in several locations on the Yacht. Never did the loaf of bread in the oven but usually brought something that made the Yacht feel like home. Does it work yep!

Not many brokers ever put this kind of thought into selling your vessel so you have to do it for them.

Most brokers meet you at the vessel try to get the door unlocked with you waiting. The boat is hot, usually messy stereo and TV is off, your not allowed to touch anything or start the boat or tun on the electronics. As I said all this would up and running I usually let the prospective buyer start the engines from cold and let them warm up under their supervision. To truely sell a Yacht is art and science. Most boat salesmen parade around a buyer hoping to light on the right vessel and then somehow get a deposit and work through a sale.

I wish I knew you before I started looking for my 48MY. I was contacted by a New Jersey broker who saw my want add for a 48. He represented himself as a Hatteras specialist and seemed knowledgeable. He NEVER showed up for a 'showing', sent me on a couple of wild goose chases, one boat was the biggest dog you could imagine. The one we bought, I had to find myself in Yacht World. This 'broker' did show up for the sea trial just as we were getting ready to pull the lines. He got his share of the commission all right, and now seems to have reneged on our verbal deal that he would contribute to cleaning up the engine room. He no longer returns calls.

If anyone is considering a NJ broker, PM me for more details on who to avoid.

By the way, I agree that condition is everything. We sold our trawler ourselves to the first looker because it was as perfect as we could make it.

Bob

 

[SeaEric]

Not many brokers ever put this kind of thought into selling your vessel so you have to do it for them.


By the way, I agree that condition is everything. We sold our trawler ourselves to the first looker because it was as perfect as we could make it.

Bob

These are two very telling quotes from two posts on this thread. The truth of the matter is that most boat owners are total pigs. You would not believe some of the boats that are one step from salvage, that owners present to me and then task me with selling it . I wish I had here on my desk the pile of cash that I have spent over the years out of my own pocket to steam up dead, dirty carpets, shampoo tired stained upholstery and clean the black mold from the refrigerator door gaskets. I won't bother to gross you out with what I have seen and smelled in some head compartments! When you suggest to the owner that the boat would benefit by some "detailing" the owner usually says "well let's try it the way that it is and if it doesn't sell, then maybe we'll spend some money on it" Luckily, I have gotten to a place in my career where I can take a side step from this kind of inventory. Another added bonus that generally comes with the flithiest boat, is the owner's insistance that they want "top dollar" net in their pocket. For the religeous, St Jude is the patron saint of hopeless situations. I have always felt that there should be a St Jude's Yacht Brokerage to handle these customers' boat sales.

As I have said before, there are good and bad representatives in any industry. Boat sales is certainly a haven for mediocrity. A few of us do our jobs quite well and manage to support our other bad habits in the process.

And to all of you who want to buy a 53 Classic MY in good shape for $200K or under- You have a better chance at getting struck by lightening while you're shopping!