Open bridge VS enclosed for live aboard 58/60 SF

[hyperfishing]

I may have the opportunity to do the Mass/Florida trek each year and am thinking of moving aboard a 1991 era 58/60 SF. Winter in Florida, Summer in NY/Mass/RI.

While the 1970s YF 58 seems a no brainer choice, the appeal of the newer SF is my assumption they are better suited to cruising offshore all the way down to Florida in the spring and back in the fall. Hence, no need to deal with ICW bridge and heavy boat traffic hassles, run day and night etc.

So, the key questions are whether the SF is viable as a liveaboard (wife and I), do those that live aboard prefer the open or closed bridge, can you run them at 8/10 knots offshore to get good fuel economy without them rolling like the stabilized 58 YF? Is the open bridge SF viable as a long distance offshore runner?

Thanking you in advance for your responses.

 

[jim rosenthal]

If I were doing this, and I wish I were, the time I spent living on the boat would be a bigger consideration than the time I spent running it. I love my convertible, but there is no question a MY or YF is a better liveaboard boat. there is a lot of room on a 58-60 convertible, but the insides tend to be kind of gloomy, since they have no portlights, and you are always walking through the salon to get off the boat, since there is only one entrance- the aft salon door.
As far as running the MY, if you are doing the ICW in the spring or fall, I would think it would be much better to have the option of driving from the pilothouse OR the bridge, and the stabilizers would be nice. What you would give up with the MY or YF is speed- they are not as fast as the convertibles. What you gain is better space, which is also more flexible, greater fuel economy, although slower, and the ability to drive from indoors in bad weather. I would rather be in the pilothouse at those times than up on the bridge, even an enclosed bridge. Just my two cents.

 

[Genesis]

A 58/60SF is a huge boat inside. Yes, you can live in it - no problem.

With that said, a 58YF is even larger. But you give up quite a bit of speed to get that.

As for rolling, there is simply no substitute for stabilizers other than speed. If you want to run at a speed that is conducive to keeping some of your hard-earned money in your wallet instead of in the fuel tank, the only way to do that is to have a stabilized boat - and that's not a SF. Further, running at cruise and on plane in rough seas isn't that much fun no matter how big your boat. Yeah, you CAN - but do you WANT TO? Probably not.

As for the enclosed bridge, if I was going run in all weather I'd want to be in either a pilothouse or enclosed bridge. I have an open bridge (with curtains) now, and when the weather sucks it just plain sucks.

Why are you considering the SF, given your intended use? You could take a 58YF and put in QSM engines, or big Cats - you'd have a very nice boat that would be a lot quieter with much better economy, yet still be able to run in the low 20kt range effortlessly, and probably make around 25kts or so in the corner. However, those motors are not cheap and getting them in wouldn't be a trivial job either. Stepping up to the bigger Cats would be even more money... but the result would be a VERY unique multipurpose boat that nobody else would have.....

But when you were done, what could you buy for that money that would be as nice? Not much - at any price!

I'm not a MY fan, but that's because I like to play in the water - and MY sterns are not conducive to diving. For that reason a MY doesn't do it for me......

 

[hyperfishing]

Thanks for the replies guys. Interesting observation that a 58 foot SF at 10 knots offshore is going to roll more than a stabilized 58 yachtfish at the same speed? That is a stunner to me, never thought that would be the case. Neat idea about the QSM engines, kind of fits with my present "what the H is that? Cooool!" customized gofast, but I likely can't afford the install, changing struts/trannies props etc. I'll check it out.

Also interesting observation that in bad seas you would rather be closer to the water inside a YF than tracing circles in the sky atop an enclosed command bridge. Figured the opposite, as I know someone with a 53 MY who lashes themselves to the bridge in terrible storms rather than drive inside.
Can't see through the water crashing on the windows apparently.


Yes, the boat would basically be a house that is moved twice each year to avoid winter up north and summer down south, with the odd extended trip to the bahamas etc. Rest of boating time will likely continue to use my customized gofast for fishing and cruising. I have given up on affording a boat big enough for it to sit it on deck. <gg>

Other than the migration trips north and south, the big boat will be sitting at the dock most of the time, in decent/mild weather conditions. So, kindly compare living on a 58/60 SF with an enclosed command bridge vs an open bridge with plastic enclosures. Which would you prefer? My guess is the open bridge like the YF is tough to beat, but I value what you guys say.

It seems the YF is looking better, and the SF ability to run fast offshore is just too costly relative to the other YF benefits. BUT, to me, the long slow trip up and down the ICW twice a year might drive me nuts. I figure it would be tough to do, expensive, since no way I'd do it at night and have to stay in marinas etc. I'd rather blast down the open sea day and night, sleeping shifts to get it done in the shortest possible time, without staying in marinas. Even running a steady 10 knots day and night offshore should cut the trip from 14 days + to 5 days. Perhaps the yachtfish might be able to do this from what you are saying, but I do like the SF ability to rip along at 30 knots when fleeing the weather offshore. What 140 gallons an hour? <gg> I am very good at running from the weather in my current boat.....run away, run away, live to fight another day...Monty Python and the attack rabbit. Great admiration for sailors/trawlers who sit there and slog it out. Not for me.

Note: I suffer greatly running ICW no wake zones in my gofast, hate it, hate it! I think waiting for bridges all the time would similarly drive me wacko. Any of you guys make an attitude adjustment to tolerate waits for bridges on long ICW trips twice a year? Seems a tough thing to handle.

 

[admiralty58]

This boat was set up to do what you are proposing:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...&units=Feet&checked_boats=1144743&slim=quick&

We did it on our prior 53 (unstabilized/12-14knots) in 5-7 days each time. Outside Shinnecock to Norfolk, with fuel at OC MD, intracoastal to Beaufort, fuel, outside to St Aug, fuel , outside to Lauderdale, then the same back up.

My friends are all doing it thru Okacroke(sp?) now, should trim another day. (Plus most of the bridges)

Take a few friends with you (probably not the wife) take shifts all night and go right along. In poor weather the lower station is Very usable, and Far more civilized. Between your electronics and the wipers visabilty is not an issue.The lower station is GOOD, lower center of gravity; your buddy must have been an ex-sportfisher who was just more comfortable running from up there.
Some people just don't like looking thru glass, period, but you will have that issue on an enclosed bridge anyhow.

The stabilizers would have been nice, but I can think of maybe 2 4-6 hour periods where we REALLY wanted them, worked out to about $8,000 an hour, so its all what your time is worth (j/k!). Adjusting your course helps alot, and the 58 runs better than the 53, (little more speed, about the same weight/longer waterline) so its really not that big a deal. Other than these trips, our boat would only leave the docks on sunny days anyhow. Monetary concerns out the window? Run it for a while and see it you like it, then toss in 1500 MANs and forget about the stabilizers.



Once you get down south, the open upper station comes into full time use, day and night, and once you get there the large windows in the MY/YF make for a very, very nice livaboard. Turn the block heaters heaters on, use the little boat, and enjoy cocktails on the bridge.

 

[MikeP]

I can't imagine why anyone would run a 53MY from up top in bad weather. Everything about the boat's operation (and comfort) is superior from the lower helm. We ran the wipers all day coming up the east coast last year and it just isn't any kind of a problem. Being on the flybridge in the same conditions would have been miserable (and pointless.)

 

[Pascal]

i ran the boat from the flybridge one day, outside FTL going to the air n sea show last year... 8 footers, coming on the beam, i could barely stand and couldn't safely go on the foredeck to anchor... i can't say the motion was much worst on the bridge compared to below.

teh 58YF has accomodation similar to the 53MY, the boat has a ton of space. The best part of the layout is probably the aft deck (smaller on the YF I think) offering great views, and excellent venitlation thru the side doors. better privacy too since you're higher up compared to the cockpit of the SF. but if fishing, diving, etc... is your thing, then the full cockpit of a SF can't be beat... compromise compromise... but of course you probably have more shade with the YF hardtop, important down south.

how you will use the boat is more important than the bi annual trip. if i was doing the trip, I'd do most of it inside except in excellent weather, running long hours and anchoring for the night instead of marinas.

the flybridge is a great place to hang out, and i don't think i'd really want an enclosed fb. if i want enclosed, then i ahve the lower helm... some boats have less space on the bridge, with the helm in the middle. Mine has the helm forward with 2 chairs and a huge L shape seat. that still leave me enough room to hang a hammock (the best place to take a nap and enjoy the tropical breeze).

bottom line, i woudl focus on how you will use the boat once you get there and not the trip itself.

 

[Genesis]

Yep.

I dive, and the YF would be marginally ok. A MY would not be at all. I might trade the "marginally OK" from "fantastic" I get with a SF to go to the YF if I was going to live on it, because then I don't give a good damn about friends being on board for diving (90% of the time) as opposed to now where 90+% of my trips HAVE friends on board. Plus I can easily fit a compressor and nitrox stick in the YF - it is very difficult to find a good place to have and use one on a sportfish, although it can be done.

As for running, were I doing the trip up north or down south I'd run all day and night with enough crew on board to do three watches (4 on, 8 off), run at displacement speeds to keep fuel burn reasonable and do so only on decent weather days - OFFSHORE. If its going to blow, put into an inlet, drop the hook, and wait it out. Otherwise stick the boat on AP, kick back and enjoy the ride. Screw this ICW nonsense - I prefer to run out in the open whenever I can; you've got the boat for it - use it.

These days while a blow-up storm is unpredictable an 8-hour+ azz-beating is almost always self-inflicted. If you want one go ahead and have it. I refuse to run on a schedule that insists that I take one - been there, done that, have the T-shirt and I didn't enjoy earning it.

If the WX is nice during the day I'd likely spend some of it on the flybridge, but the rest of the time I'd be at the inside helm. There I have air conditioning and immediate access to beverages and food.

With that strategy stabilizers are very, very valuable - they turn what is a marginal day into a very enjoyable one.

 

[spartonboat1]

Hatteras World ran a story a few years ago on a real-world test that Hatteras performed for rough seas vs. ride. They took one of their big SF's 60-65' or so and ran it as hard as they could into 12' seas on the ocean. This would have been one of the newer gofast boats.

They had instrumented the boat for shock ratings at different locations. After reviewing the shock instrument readouts the conclusion was that the best helm location as about 1/4 to 1/3 forward from aft, at lower bridge level.

I happened to reach the writer to inquire about how rough the ride would be, in terms of 12 footers on the Great Lakes. His response was that the Ocean was a much less rough ride, due to longer swells, and that the Great Lakes would have been far rougher.

So far the worst I have seen has been 7-9's in 20-25 knot winds, bow on quartering seas, so I checked down to about 11 knots and we actually ran ok. That is in a 43' MY. The ride was not all that bad, with only one seasick party aboard (but who can get sick at the dock).

I always assumed that a 58-65' YF or SF could take a pretty rough sea. What would be the roughest seas that could could run at moderate speeds?

 

[jim rosenthal]

Regarding your feeling that a slow trip up and down the ICW would riv eyou crazy...I offer the following:
I don't know of a surer way to get into trouble and possible lose your life out there than to be in a hurry. It's one thing to get caught in bad weather despite good planning- that could and has happened to all of us. It's another thing to head into bad weather deliberately because you're on a schedule you don't want to change. Hell, the enjoyment of being retired is NOT having to be on a schedule and not be just another hamster in the treadmill.
Buy the boat you want to LIVE on- if you do spend 28 days transiting the ICW that still leaves 337 per year that you are not moving and you want the space, not the speed. And some of your ICW trips will be faster than 14 days for sure. If you really like the boat, do what Karl said and put in bigger engines.
But you won't, is my bet. You'll decide you like the boat the way it is better than you like the idea of spending 150-200K to make it go faster. If you want a motoryacht that is faster, put the 200K in at the beginning and just get a faster boat.
Oh, and do get a boat with stabilizers. They make a huge difference.

 

[hyperfishing]

Wow, all these comments are great and are really helping me to figure this out. So far not one person has said "an enclosed flybridge SF is great at the dock." If any of you are bottling this up inside yourself, please let me know. <gg>

Oh yeah about the weather, I ran the tail end of hurricane Kyle in my go fast, not fun I can assure you. Main reason I am attracted to the enclosed flybridge SF! But, everyone here seems to think the inside steering station in a 58 YF does just fine and all prefer the open bridge deck for hanging out on at anchor or the dock.

Pacal's comment about stringing a hammock on the flybridge is something I never would have thought of, very neat! I know my wife would love the huge master stateroom on a 58 MY, that is why she is never going to see one if I can help it! Fishing and diving are more important to me, as is line handling. <gg>

Looks like the YF is the clear winner over the SF with this group. Final question: what is the difference between the 58 YF VS 58 MY with cockpit? Or, are they the same boat?

 

[Traveler 45C]

That Yachtfish is absolutely gorgeous!!!

Do you eat in the galley or the engine room?

 

[admiralty58]

Depends on my behavior where my wife sets up my plate!!


There is a 60' enclosed bridge next to me right now in NY. It is a 1978 and absolutely beautiful. It is large and has plenty of room to liveaboard.

The salon is big and nice, and the galley up will be a plus for some people, the staterooms are goodsized and comfortable, but you do know you are in a boat. The washer/dryer is under the stairs and a little hard to get to. The engine room is Exceptional, I have never seen better access to 1271s on any boat. The upstairs helm is a complete separate room, the guy has a bunch of kids and I think he spends alot of time up there alone (quite happily-has his grill up there and all)

The boat feels massive and powerful, and far larger than its 60 feet. Inside it feels like a vault, the same feeling you get on the larger hatteras LRCs.

I guess the only downside to it is, it feels like a vault!..some people will like that, and others may not. The thing is flat out badazz and other than it only runs 18 knots or so, I cannot imagine someone upgrading out of it for a fishing boat (if it is kept in this condition).

 

[hyperfishing]

Yep, very nice boat admiralty58.....trade the house to you for that, today! Oh yeah, forgot to check with wife, I'd be weighing down the anchor. <gg>

The "separate room" feature on the SF might be a plus or minus, depending on the wife's moods I guess. Kind of like climbing a tree to lick your wounds and once there, not coming down.

 

[admiralty58]

That 60 also has full guages and electronics allllll the way up on the Tuna Tower...pretty unusual I think...and about 5 people fit up there!..

you would really be "treed" though!

 

[Genesis]

An enclosed bridge SF is nice if you run commercially (e.g. on charter) and would otherwise have about 20 melanomas a year to have removed, or if you have a paid captain on board who wants it.

I like enclosed bridge decks, but only with interior access to the rest of the boat.

 

[hyperfishing]

Never thought of the captain factor. Makes sense, he can be isolated in the enclosed deck without having to entertain partygoers or worse. The adults can play downstairs without bugging him, or worry that Joey's business plans for icing Moe will be overheard by the captain.

"That 60 also has full guages and electronics allllll the way up on the Tuna Tower...pretty unusual I think...and about 5 people fit up there!..

you would really be "treed" though!"

...Oh the wife would be all over that. On a dewy, wet morning when there was no way I was climbing up the slippery tower on a 50 Hat, my wife exclaimed "oh neat" and scrambled up it in a flash. Naturally with the captain looking on, I had no choice to but to follow my wife, but my knees were shaking all the way up, and that was at the dock!

I always figured those towers were for snailboters in your crew. When they get bored crewing the "stinkpot" you can get them racing each other up and down the tower for lunch money. You mean it the tower has a real function? Not for me!

BTW 58, are you in Hampton Bays? Falcon hi-perf used to wrench on my Sonic, did great work. See any action around there lately? Heard they closed up. Too bad, great guys.

 

[hyperfishing]

Final question: what is the difference between the 58 YF VS 58 MY with cockpit? Or, are they the same boat?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Charlie826]

Look in the brochures archive on the Sam's Marine home page. That's the greatest thing since sliced bread when shopping Hatts. It'll show and tell you all you want.

 

[MicroKap]

I have a 1980 60' Sportfish, enclosed bridge. I purchased it last year and have been very happy with it so far. It has the 12V71TI's with 650 HP and cruises around 17 knots at 57 gallons per hour. The boat came up to NJ from Fort Lauderdale last July. I had a captain and mate bring it up the coast. They left on Saturday, July 10, 2004 from Fort Lauderdale after filling up the fuel tanks (1,557 gallons). They cruised outside to around Jacksonville area and filled up again. They called me after breakfast on the 11th after departing northern FL. On the 12th, they were in Beaufort, NC, filling up again. On the 13th, they filled up in Atlantic City and stayed the night, after spending 8-10 hours in 8 footers which started in the dark. The morning of the 14th, they were up in Highlands, NJ by around 10:30 AM and we put in about 400 gallons. The captain said the boat was the most predictable handling boat he had ever captained. It went exactly where he wanted it to, when he wanted it to go there.

We felt so confident once it got up here that we left the following morning for a trip to Westbrook, CT. The captain said that it didn't miss a beat.

The majority of items to service are readily available. The engine room is huge, with full walk around capability of each engine. The pump room ahead of the engine room is very useful and organized with the washer/dryer, ac pump and compressors, etc.

Also, I have a 13' AB inflatable RIB on the bow that is very easy to take off by myself and bring up by myself. Try that on a motoryacht from the third level of the boat. The enclosed flybridge is a blessing. Close the windows and door and you have a nice hum that reminds you that the engines are on and you're away from the dock cruising. It really makes the cruising just as good as the destination, maybe even better.

I think that they utilized the space well in this boat. You can get the lower gph at slower cruise, but you have the speed available.

In July, I ran back from the Hatteras Rendezvous in Newport, RI, mostly in fog. The full enclosure on the flybridge was a big help. Better visibility right in front of the boat during 1/8 mile visibility. The enclusure also keeps the glare on the electronics to a minimum. If I want to drive in the open air, I can run it from the tuna tower, but no need since I have fair skin and don't tan well.

Just my 2 cents. If you're in the area and want to see one up close, I'd be more than happy to give you a tour.

Larry K.
1980 60' Sportfish
Monmouth Beach, NJ