OH SH&*!, NO REVERSE! electronic controls

[Mike36c]

Last week I was on my way back to the dock at Spanish Cay after a GREAT day of yellowfin tuna and blue marlin fishing, setting up to back into my slip when the port engine shifted into neutral but no reverse ! The shifter would not move past neutral. I'm now pointed at big dollar yachts and getting excited. The starboard engine did shift so I pretty much got her stopped but now all cock-eyed between on-looking, now concerned captains. Of course I couldn't leave well enough alone so kept trying for reverse, shifting from fwd to neutral, still locked out of reverse then something goes "clank" as it shifts into fwd and the port engine STAYS in fwd, no action from the lever at all. All on-looking eyes get a little bigger. I reach over and shut down the port engine, at least that worked, and luckily limped into my slip without a scratch.

After tying her up I began to investigate, I pulled the shifter cover and the problem was visible. There is a small screw that secures a small plate which holds the cable pin in place, it had loosened during the long run in and let the pin partially work its way out, that's what kept in from going into reverse. When I shifted back and forth it released the pin altogether leaving the engine in fwd. I re-assembled including locktite blue on the set screws and all was well.

My post is for you folks with Morse mechanical cable controls, it takes only a few minutes to locktite these screws before you get screwed
I have been postponing purchasing new electronic controls because I was convinced cables were safer, not any more. Murphy loves simple mechanical devices too......

 

[jim rosenthal]

I have had this happen on two boats- my Striker, where the lever on top of one of the Twin Disc gears had corroded through and snapped off at the least opportune time (doesn't it generally happen then?), and on Blue Note, where someone (Dr Rosenthal) had failed to secure the cable end into the notch when he adjusted the shifting levers. Fortunately nothing hit either time, thank God. Since then, I scrutinize cable controls very carefully. I figure they are just waiting for me to look the other way and then screw up again.

 

[Genesis]

A number of years ago I was down in South Florida in a yard and a nice Bertram was coming into the pocket for a haul.

Suddenly the boat surged forward - CRRRRRUUUNNNCCCCHHH!!!!! on the front of the pocket!

We all thought "WTF?"

Anyway, what had happened was that the boat had those fancy electronic controls. The captain selected reverse, and the gears did not shift - but the throttle worked just fine! Not slowing down he gave it a bit more throttle.......

Glad you "missed" everything!

 

[Pascal]

well, if the cable assemlby was not assembled correctly, how can you be sure a plug for these fancy electornic control wouldn't have gottne loose or corroded ? or whatever linkage you have between the tranny and the fancy gizmo down below?

25 years of flying, boating, driving, never had a cable go bad.

 

[Passages]

Cables do go bad.
Happened to me about 20 years ago on my 36' Trojan. I was pulling out of a slip at Block Island. Went to shift from forward to reverse to make the corner and the control felt stiff. With boats all around I really needed that reverse gear NOW! Forced the tranny lever into reverse and still going forward. Shut the engine down quick and somehow made the corner on 1 engine. Out in the harbor I threw a hook to check things out. The cable had seized and bent 90* right under the control box. Had my buddy manually shift at the engine and we went home that way.

Manual cables are fine, just check & lube them ocassionally.

 

[Freestyle]

Not being able to get into the gear you want is scary but sometimes easily fixed.

Last summer my wife surprised me by washing the boat. I got underway driving from the lower helm and could not get into reverse. I threw a line and tied to the fuel dock. Then I went in the hole and started tracing the cable looking for some mechanical type of failure.

After 3 hours of swearing cursing failure to find the problem. My wife picked up her oversized purse and headed ashore. The problem was immediately solved. Her over sized purse had been lodged in front of the gear shift on the flybridge in such a way that I could not shift it in reversse from the lower helm.

Just a story to keep in mind when solving this type of emergency "battle problem".

 

[Will]

A scary situation indeed. But Murphy was being kind to you that day otherwise, you would have been much closer to those expensive yachts before the failure occurred.

Stay away from electric controls. They too have their problems such as corrosion, mechanical failure and by nature, they require a constant source of electrical power. I’d only use them if distances between the engines and the control station were too long for cables. Then, I’d prefer to use pneumatic controls if I could afford them.

Electric controls are also difficult to repair in the field unless you carry an extensive assortment of proprietary spare parts like switches, circuit boards, etc.

With cables, you are more likely able to make repairs or jury rig around problems at sea.

Cables are significantly more reliable but as with anything on board a boat, they need occasional inspection and attention.

Will

 

[AquaNav77]

Buying and installing electronic engine controls without the backup throttles and clutches is not very good. In case of failure, electronic controls made by Twin Disc, Caterpillar, MTU, and ZF all have a backup feature to eliminate the problems or situations presented above. Of the four mentioned above, the CAT system is the better of them all. They provide a failsafe switch for each engine to activate the backup feature and from there the throttles and clutches are via rotary knobs on a separate pod.

Pneumatic controls!!!??? Forget them. I have seen the wipe outs caused by them when they have gotten stuck in reverse or in gear. I witnessed an accident at Bradford Marine in Ft. Lauderdale when a 125' Burger with Mathers Pneumatics was maneuvering in reverse when the port trannie got stuck in reverse. The engineer was in the engine room at that very moment trying to forcibly get the gear back into neutral when CRUNCH!!!! The Burger had backed into a sailboat, sinking it. while the MY suffered a gaping hole in its transom. There are pros and cons for every type system. However, modern electronic controls do have backups installed on them unlike the other systems. The bad thing is that on some they are an optional feature and sometimes not installed because of cost constraints. Not a very good idea and a very bad move!

AquaNav77

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I think I would stay with cables too. But even with cables, you still can have other gear problems. For instance, when I launched this spring, I backed away from the well with no problem, but when I went to turn around, I had no fwd on the port side. I had just worked on the port trans, but I thought all was well sinced it jumped right into the reverse gear. Well, after a couple of attempts, it finally engaged in fwd. I just hadn't waited long enough for the oil to fill the fwd piston. It had been dry since the rebuild and I wasn't thinking about the mechanics of it while I was sweating out the heavy crosswind.

 

[luckydave215]

Or you could do Like me and have both. I have Morse electronic controls (4 stations) AND the original Panish cable controls in the cockpit. To change from one to the other, I have to change a clip on the syncronizer assemblies, it's easy to reach and just takes a second. If the electronics take a crap, at least I can drive (I just can't see anything forward)

 

[Mike36c]

Good points by all. I guess the cable to electronic dilemma continues It's funny how everything worked fine all day, backing down on fish etc. and all goes to hell when surrounded by yachts, right in front of the clubhouse/bar, with all to watch. Gotta admit, Murphy does have a sense of humor

 

[Capt K]

I guess you could call it that!

K

 

[GaryNW]

Just out of curiosity- what about hydraulic controls such as Hynautic? Very common in medium sized fishing boats (say 40' to 100'). Lotsa stations- pretty easy to do, no electricity involved. As I recall, the fluid is water and antifreeze.
Gary

 

[MikeP]

There was a 125 footer in New Rochelle, NY last year that was stuck for a week because they couldn't get the computer-controlled system to put the trannies in reverse. They had to fly a software team in from Germany to sort out the problems.

A friend of mine, who knows one of the boat crewman told me about this at the time. My response was, why didn't somebody go to the engine room and manually put the trannies in reverse. He said there was no way to do that! I have since found out that there was a way to do it manually but no one in the crew knew it (or remembered it)!

That goes to show how important it is to PRACTICE emergency procedures. Also a good reminder why it's a good idea to test those emergency engine air-door shut downs periodically as DD requires AND check to see if the automatic fire suppression system really will work both automatically and manually (ours didn't!).

 

[Maynard Rupp]

I am all for cable controls. On airplanes we, as pilots, always favored cable control systems. They react immedietly, generate good feel, and have always been far less troublesome than hydraulic or electronic actuators. All of our boats have mechanical controls at the end. Transmission levers have to physically move and either carburators or fuel injections have arms that must move. The safest way to move the arm is to operate it directly with your hand. The next best, IMHO, is to add a cable to remote the lever. How much simpler could it be? Electronic and hydraulic add another possible failure element. I always thought our dual station added a nice backup until I read the post about "my wife's purse". Sometimes you can't beat Murphey.

 

[MikeP]

about two years ago I performend all kinds of diagnostic work on a turbo-Porsche to find why it wouldn't produce the proper boost/power anymore. Several hours, and no luck later, I discovered that the problem with the power was that the floor mat had bunched up under the accelerator pedal and it wouldn't go to full throttle. Two seconds to straighten out the carpet and the car was fine!

 

[jim rosenthal]

I agree with you, Maynard. I think properly maintained cable control systems are the least likely to break. In both of the cases where I had trouble, if I had kept an eye on things as I should have, it would not have happened. I'm learning, but not as fast as I wish I was.

 

[luckydave215]

I had an Ocean Alexander 60' trawler with hynautic (hydraulic) controls. They were trouble free.
If only I could say the same thing about the Mickey Mouse asian wiring. By the time I sold her, I'd rewired the whole boat. And a lot of it wasn't a picnic to reach.