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Not Yet a Dead Zone

  • Thread starter Thread starter Vincentc
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Vincentc

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Rumors of the death of the Northern Gulf of Mexico post DWH may be premature. I had some work done on my computer this morning and asked Mark Miller if he had recently seen any fish in the Gulf. He said, lots of them, and referred me to his web site:

The below sites might lift any oil dampened spirits:

http://gallery.primofish.com/2010/Fishing_Diving/MGFB/100620_FH-1/

http://gallery.primofish.com/2010/Fishing_Diving/MGFB/100613_FH-13_Linda_Susan_Pogey_Boat_SStar/

http://gallery.primofish.com/2010/Fishing_Diving/MGFB/100522_MGFB_FH-1_FH-2/

Regards,
 
This doesn't make me feel any better about what is happening offshore... No matter which way you cut it, it stinks.
 
Some areas are better than others but you can only deny the reality if you look the other way. This pic was taken on Orange Beach the other day.
 

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A photo is worth a thousand words.

I honestly do not think this will be cleaned up without our lifetime. I'm talking about all the mess on the ocean floor - you know...ALL of it, not just the stuff floating on the surface and washing up on the beaches. This is a global disaster.
 
What was Ixtoc?
It leaked for 297 days into the Gulf in 1979-1980.

The oil comes and goes at various shorelines. So far, despite my spending a significant time on the gulf and Sound since 4/20 I have yet to see any oil. I can show you a hundred or so photos of oil free water and FL AL and MS beaches to match published photos, often repeats, of beaches with oil and oil stained birds, etc.

The photos taken by Mark Miller are in the area not far from the DWH. The sample of the oil plume located by the NOAA research ship Gordon Gunter was less than 1/2 part per million oil to water. There is an impressive amount of oil which naturally seems into the Gulf each year. How many fish kills have have there been in over the last 60 days?

I would read the detailed NOAA reports re dolphin and turtle stranding, and reports on Exxon Valdiz spill recovery, before concluding that the physical damage will take a lifetime to resolve. I would take the time to look at the live ROV live feeds and archived videos of the leaks before believing the reported amount of of oil that is leaking or otherwise accepting a doomsday scenario.

I am not really an optimist. The economic and political damage which is evolving from the over-reactions to the spill does cause me to lose sleep.
regards,
 
Vinvent, as I mentioned on your "Paradise" thread you left Pensacola inlet the very day that lots of oil washed up from Johnson beach west of Pensacola inlet to well past the water tower east of the Pensacola inlet. You would have gotten more than an eye full had you walked the beach the day you left.

I agree that the media is a joke, constantly repeating the few "good" shots of oil covered birds, etc but the fact remains that this oil spill is a bit more serious than any other past spills in history. Sure there is oil in the Gulf naturally, but again, this is a bit more than usual.

I am an optimist, but this is tough to be very optimistic about.
 
Thanks Vincent. We all know this is not good, but it's nice to see the part that the media will NOT report. It does give us some hope that all is not lost.
 
Unfortunately in this, as all situations the truth is somewhere in the middle. The portion of media that resorts to hysteria and half truths, and the offender BP, are at odds, leaving us to try and figure out what the real effect will be.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. I recently fished Breton Sound and only saw boats preparing for a spill. The waters were clear and the fish were cooperative and delicious. This could all change in a matter of hours. We all need to try and form our own opinions about this based on our own experiences.

Some experts say this will dissolve while others experts say it will not.

All we can do is wait it out and see what happens. Hopefully none of us make bad decisions based on bad information.

Perception is a huge part of these situations. The recession is a good example. You can still go to the beach, have a margarita, enjoy the sun, and have that Detroit Diesel smell occasionally. Some people pay big money for that odor.

News media only report bad news. A pelican nesting safely is not what makes the show. People catching hundreds of trout does not make the show. Oysters going unharvested because more money can be made wearing a life jacket riding around on BP's nickel does not make the show. Shrimp not being caught for the same reason do not make the show either.

Again the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Jimmy
 
Thanks Vincent. We all know this is not good, but it's nice to see the part that the media will NOT report. It does give us some hope that all is not lost.
I believe all that black stuff is oil and tar. This is the next video on the same site showing ground level shots of the tar washing up on the beach.
http://www.pnj.com/section/videoNet...la+Beach/50992436001/48322990001/101554567001
and this
http://www.pnj.com/section/videoNet...la+Beach/50992436001/48322990001/101501829001
 
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I don't know how anyone can make light of the massive spill(s) in the Gulf and else where across the globe. Realizing we must do drilling and mine oil, these 'accidents' happen all the time and is getting worse all the time too.

Environment Canada estimates that a dozen oil spills — of about 4,000 litres each — are reported every day in Canada and that is just from ships.

In the Maritimes and Newfoundland and Labrador, an average of 200 oil spills are reported annually in each region. Canada's Pacific region had 209 incidents in 2007. These are from rigs.

These smaller 'accidents' are happening all the time, all over the world and do not receive any media attention, so if the media is going overboard on this massive Gulf spill and drawing attention to the problem... I say.. good for them!

"Not Yet a Dead Zone".... how long you want to wait until it is?
 
Pity they have not paid as much attention to the "fish dead zone" in the Gulf from all the fertilizer used to accelerate corn growth to make ethanol....washed into the Gulf on a continual basis, (cuts dependency on oil).
 
Re the preceding comment:

"if the media is going overboard on this massive Gulf spill and drawing attention to the problem... I say. good for them!"

To that I suggest:

The ends do not justify the means.

My father used to say, “ If a person will lie to you, he will steal from you.”

Lying is simply dishonest and corrupting. How does one justify a concerted series of untruths?

I have lived on the Mississippi Sound and worked and/or played in the Gulf since the early 1960’s, and am personally very interested the spill and its impact. Since 4/20 I have spent too much time reading reports and stories about the spill and attempting to fact check.

My experience to date with oil spill reports has been that every claimed fact, which I have read or heard and struck me as significant, except one, was simply false. There is a report of reduced Oxygen level measured by a Sea Grant agency at one area in the Gulf, South of Mobile Bay, which appears credible. Otherwise misrepresentation, to my observation, has been the rule.

Perhaps at the core, is a pervading media representation that the total oil spilled into the gulf from DWH amounts to an average of 58,000 bbl per day since 4/20. The only basis for that estimate is a worst case scenario, which has not occurred. No one knows the amount which has leaked and estimates are difficult. I have watched the ROV feeds almost daily, studied the position of the riser and the equipment used to catch the oil coming from the riser and the measured amounts captured. From 4/20 through about 6/2 when the riser was cut at the BOP, the riser was kinked (much like an old garden hose) and oil leaked from the end of the riser and from 2 cracks at the kinks. A tool was inserted in the end of the riser, which tool captured and measured the oil escaping from end of the riser until the riser was cut and capped. Per BP: “In the period from 17 to 23 May, the daily oil rate collected by the RITT ranged from 1,360 barrels of oil per day (b/d) to 3,000 b/d, and the daily gas rate ranged from 4 million cubic feet per day (MMCFD) to 17 MMCFD.

The most recent LMRP oil/gas collection data is: “On June 25, total oil recovered was approx. 24,550 barrels: approx. 16,340 barrels of oil were collected, approx. 8,210 barrels of oil were flared, and approx. 54.5 million cubic feet of natural gas were flared.

Leaking from the DWH site is a cloud of oil, gas and water. Note that inside the current cloud is a 4-ft diameter cap, the sides of which are occasionally visible. Based upon the above information regarding oil gas recovery, the average ratio from the LMRPis 2,220 cubic feet of gas for every barrel of oil. Converting bbl of oil to cubic feet based upon 42 gal/bbl and 7.48 gal/CF, the ration is 395 CF gas per CF of oil. Keep in mind that these measurements are at sea level and the gas in the cloud at the BOP is under the pressure of 5000 ft of water.

After looking at videos and considering the above, I suggest that a fair estimate of the unrestricted flow from the cut riser would be about 30,000 bbl per day. However that rate occurred only for less than 2 days, after the riser was cut and before the riser cap was put in place. Looking at the flow from the end of the riser and the kink/crack before the riser was cut and considering that the high capture rate from the end of the riser was 3,000 bbl / day it seems reasonable to estimate that the oil leaking before the riser was cut was less than 10,000 bbl / day.

Assuming a restricted flow of 10,000 bbl / day from 4/20 to 6/2 and an unrestricted flow of 30,000 bbl /day from 6/2 through 6/25 the total flow through the BOP since 4/20 would be 1,120,000 bbl of which 413,000 bbl was captured before it leaked into the Gulf. Thus my estimated total leakage of oil is less than 707,000 bbl over 66 days.

On the other hand a popularly reported media estimate amounts to over 4,000,000 bbl spilled during that same 66 days. http://www.wlox.com/Global/category.asp?C=186625 The media figure as of this moment is over 170,925,000 gallons which is over 4,008,000 bbl. The media estimate is 5.67 times greater than mine is, and I’ve “shown my work”, they do not. Why?

Regarding the release of oil in the water, Relative contribution of average, annual releases (1990-1999) of petroleum hydrocarbons (in kilotonnes) from natural seeps and activities associated with the extraction, transportation, and consumption of crude oil or refined products to the marine environment.

N American Marine Waters
Natural Seeps 160 Extraction of Petroleum 3 Transport of Petroleum 9.1
Consumption of Petroleum 84
Total 256.1

Thus in North American Marine Water from 1990-1999, spills from extraction (oil rigs) was 1% of the total and natural seeps 62%.

http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10388&page=29

see also: http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/oceanography-book/oilspills.htm
IN SUMMARY

I submit that more damage has been caused by these misrepresentations than the spill itself. Based upon credible data rather than incredible stories, the damage to the Gulf from the oil, which has and is leaking is in my estimation quite limited and primarily cosmetic. Like the natural seepage the Gulf can handle it. On the other hand I do not know that we can handle the economic and political consequences of shutting down 33 deepwater rigs, greatly increased domestic offshore oil production costs or a blatant $20 billion extortion.

Reference:

ROV live feed and archives
http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=9033572&contentId=7062605

Archive video of oil/gas flow from the end of the riser before the RITT was installed
http://bp.concerts.com/gom/rov_crater_withRITT.htm

Archive video of oil/gas flow from the crack at the riser just above the BOP
http://bp.concerts.com/gom/rov_riserkink.htm

Interesting video of the vessels on site
http://bp.concerts.com/gom/discoverenterprise_25052010.htm

RITT data:
http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=9033657&contentId=7062142

Videos which show LMRP including views of the 4-ft diameter cap
http://bp.concerts.com/gom/enterprisetopcap060610.htm

http://bp.concerts.com/gom/subsea_staging_area.htm

Animation of riser cut for LMRP
http://bp.concerts.com/gom/riser_cut_explained.htm
 
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WOW, what a rebuttal. Vincent, are you an attorney???
 
Like most things in modern day life, when it comes to commerce, "follow the money" nothing wrong with that, but, the media gets it money from ratings figures which convert to advertizers, CNN seems to really push the envelope when it comes to overhype and sensationalizing any disaster, in depth study seems to take too much time and it there are enough "experts" to confirm their position then they will go with it. I have never yet seen or heard a backtrack on any issue they report on.
 
WOW, what a rebuttal. Vincent, are you an attorney???
Yes, that is quite a knowledgeable and intelligent response, and it raises alot of solid economic & environmental points. That is far more informative than I am on the subject. I will take the time to read and digest everything you said and linked to, thank you Vincent, but really ... what I was referring to was the maintenance and production type errors of man that should be avoidable in contributing to mother natures polution on the earth.
 
What ever the actual amount of oil that has escaped into the Gulf, the amount is huge. This doesn't mean we should halt all oil drilling and exploration. From what I have read and understand, this was an avoidable accident that BP felt the risk was worth taking. If so then you can't fault all off shore drilling for BP and the governments lack of precaution. You don't ban the use of automobiles just because others drive irresponsibly. This is a horrible disaster and none of us can predict the damage it will cause. Unfortunately there are many who will try to benefit from such a disaster and those who will try to cover up their gross negligence. In the end we will all pay dearly for the actions of others.
 
WOW, what a rebuttal. Vincent, are you an attorney???

Thanks,
Yes, but considering the nature and scope advertisements by other lawyers, I hesitate to admit it. Likewise, I do not approve of trying lawsuits in the media rather than the courtroom.

Disclaimer: My oil spill comments are simply personal thoughts and interests.

I have undertaken to research this on my own and welcome any credible information regarding the nature and extent of the DWH leak and any resulting damage. I would like to deal in verifiable facts rather than emotion or argument and achieve an objective understanding.

Saltshaker, I think we generally agree; however, let me note, to my knowledge, we also do not know if there has been significant damage to the Gulf. Regarding fault, I would hesitate to convict people of gross negligence without knowing the facts, and I do not claim to know. We have hear one quite biased side of this matter, from sources whose credibility track record is, uh, questionable.

I fear that public opinion has been so inflamed by this matter that objectivity has been lost and there have been/will be serious and perhaps far reaching harmful political and economic consequences that will do nothing to enhance the health of the Gulf of Mexico.

Regards
 
"We have hear one quite biased side of this matter, from sources whose credibility track record is, uh, questionable.

I fear that public opinion has been so inflamed by this matter that objectivity has been lost and there have been/will be serious and perhaps far reaching harmful political and economic consequences that will do nothing to enhance the health of the Gulf of Mexico."

I think V has said well.
 

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