Newbie looking for 52-58 MY

[SKYCHENEY]

C'mon Saltshaker! I have NEVER tried to insult you or anyone else. Nor would I! In your case, you have decades of experience and knowledge. You have built a network of people you trust to do repairs at a fair price in YOUR AREA, and obviously, have the ability to make do it yourself repairs, ...which is something a New Buyer might not have. Think about THAT GUY!

I know many of you disagree with my "total restoration philosophy". Many of you are RIGHT, depending on your individual knowledge and expertise. My assumptions are based totally on a New Boat comparison. If Hatteras built a factory new 53 Motor Yacht today, that price tag would come close to $3.5 Million. Agreed?

I'm just trying to make the point, the you CAN take good old 53, put it in a quality yard for 8 months to a year, and essentially "remanufacture" it to "new" for about $750,000 in today's dollars...which still comes to only 20% of a comparable NEW BOAT PRICE! Let your admiral pick out your colors and décor and turn the key. I think it's the most fun way to do it, provided only the best people are hired to do the work! It doesn't make me an idiot!

With depreciation percentages being equal, and the cost of maintenance and ownership to the highest level being the same, a 3 year old " totally remanufactured" 53 would be worth about $350,000 or a loss of $350,000 after 3 years...VS a New Boat for $3.5 Million that 3 years later is worth $1.7 Million, or an actual loss of $1.8 Million.

Bottom Line...IN MY HUMBLE OPINION...The ONLY smart buy for a "Newbie" buyer is the most perfect, "like new" "survey correct" 53 you can find...for the smallest actual eventual loss at the end of the day. Nobody comes out of this alive! Many of you have made excellent points here, while others like "boatsb" only know how to put down and insult others.

I like the idea, and I will have to pretty much agree with the economics of it, but.................the reason you don't see this done is because the recon 53 could not be leveraged. The owner would have to be willing and able to front the cash for such a project. Its been said before that those who are able to cough up that much cash would rather buy the new $3.5M new boat and finance it.

 

[Boatsb]

Maybe I'm wrong. I just don't see a new 53 my going for $3.5m. Maybe $1.5m, so the math is definitely different. If you can show me the prices on a new 53 Hatt I'd be interested in seeing how close my estimate is.

 

[saltshaker]

A new 54GT will run 2.5 million nicely outfitted with the bigger C32 Cats. A new Prestige 55 goes for around 1.3 million and they are about as cheap as can be. My neighbor bought one. Makes a Carver look like a Hatteras in build and system quality

 

[Boatsb]

A new 54GT will run 2.5 million nicely outfitted with the bigger C32 Cats

That's my point. The my usually does not have all the engine and gear upgrades. I'm thinking the 50 or so my is 1.5 or so. Not 3.5

Unless we're using pizzadollars again.

 

[saltshaker]

I'm always amazed at how much some of the MYs cost compared to a similar sized SF. Often not that much less with much less expensive power and running gear. Huge difference in cost between a pair of 715HP QSM11 and a pair of 1600HP C32. Both common in MY and SF in this size range

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Look at comparable quality of components and systems. A 57 Marlow with twin 1000hp Cats, isolation/boost transformers, stabilizers, bow and stern thruster, chilled water a/c, dual gensets, dual inverters, etc is around $2.5M new. So the 3.5 is off but the point is still made.

 

[saltshaker]

Look at comparable quality of components and systems. A 57 Marlow with twin 1000hp Cats, isolation/boost transformers, stabilizers, bow and stern thruster, chilled water a/c, dual gensets, dual inverters, etc is around $2.5M new. So the 3.5 is off but the point is still made.

I was thinking of a Marlow as a comparison but had no idea what they cost. I do remember looking at one at one of the boat shows back when they first came out. Price was very good for what was there. I figured 2.5 was about right for a high quality mid 50s MY. What's amazing is the cost of the cheap boats isn't always that much less

 

[Walter P]

I agree that Pizzaz makes a good point, but like was stated above probably most people who put up $700 grand in cash would buy a new 2.5 - 3 Mil boat instead. It doesn't make economic sense to me however to lose about half of the new boat cost within the first few years (probably 4 or 5) when it would actually save close to a million bucks even if the rehabbed boat wouldn't be worth anything, which of course it would be. As far as warranty is concerned, if the 30 yr old Hatt was in fact completely redone correctly by a yard like Tom Slanes or similiar with ALL new systems, I believe most of the new equipment would carry their own warranty. Perhaps the restoration yard would be willing to offer a bow to stern warranty (for a price) as well. We all know that the classic Hatts are bullet proof, so what can be so bad?

Walt

 

[Tim Powell]

Jim,

I went on BoatDiesel.com and asked this question. The answer I got for a ballpark number to start was about $4000 per cylinder. This was for an in-frame rebuild.


Jonathan

There are rebuilds and there are rebuilds. Just put pistons and liners is one thing but to do a complete job is another bucket of bucks. When you start adding heads,turbos,starters,genorator ,waterpumps, injectors and blower rebuild on and on the bucks roll.....I am speaking from experience. Eaven if all the above is working best to be sure they are in good shape or you will be back in the ER soon.
That 4000 figure will take car of pistons ,heads,injectors and in frame bearings after that the number will grow.

I WISH Hatteras would build a single engine SF boat without all the thrills.Just a basic SF no need for granit tons of back up systems on and on. Capable of about a 30 knot cruise. New out the door about or below the million mark. It would blow the doors off the custom boys. I would order one in the morning. Or at least if Freebird or Scott would co sign or make a loan.

 

[saltshaker]

There are rebuilds and there are rebuilds. Just put pistons and liners is one thing but to do a complete job is another bucket of bucks. When you start adding heads,turbos,starters,genorator ,waterpumps, injectors and blower rebuild on and on the bucks roll.....I am speaking from experience. Eaven if all the above is working best to be sure they are in good shape or you will be back in the ER soon.
That 4000 figure will take car of pistons ,heads,injectors and in frame bearings after that the number will grow.

I WISH Hatteras would build a single engine SF boat without all the thrills.Just a basic SF no need for granit tons of back up systems on and on. Capable of about a 30 knot cruise. New out the door about or below the million mark. It would blow the doors off the custom boys. I would order one in the morning. Or at least if Freebird or Scott would co sign or make a loan.

If I remember correctly you paid $56K to do both 8V92TAs in your 52C right? Knowing you and being that the work was done by Western Branch Diesel I figured it was a thorough comprehensive rebuild. That would put you at $3.5K per hole.

 

[rtrafford]

If the owner can do some of his own wrench turning and running of parts out to refab shops, leaving the core to the mechanic, I think you can get down below 3 per hole without much strain. Perhaps even to 2.5. Buy all of the parts directly and have them aboard for the mechanic, and you can trim more. Much of the cost of these mechanics is in their in and out time. Try to limit their work to staying aboard, and you'll save quite a bit.

 

[saltshaker]

If the owner can do some of his own wrench turning and running of parts out to refab shops, leaving the core to the mechanic, I think you can get down below 3 per hole without much strain. Perhaps even to 2.5. Buy all of the parts directly and have them aboard for the mechanic, and you can trim more. Much of the cost of these mechanics is in their in and out time. Try to limit their work to staying aboard, and you'll save quite a bit.

Excellent point providing the mechanic is receptive to that. I let my mechanic handle everything unless he wants me to get something. Better for both of us as I wouldn't expect him do warranty work if a part failed that I supplied. Much of the cost of an overhaul does depend on your location. Travel time for the mechanic and distance from his truck down the dock can play heavily into cost. My mechanics shop is about 10 mins from my boat so can stop by the boat to do some quick work when needed and It doesn't cost me or him added hours for travel. I do agree you can trim the cost down to 2.5-3K per hole if travel time is minimized, parts can be delivered, the ER is easy to work in and getting on/off the boat is quick and easy.

 

[jrbrein]

I WISH Hatteras would build a single engine SF boat without all the thrills.Just a basic SF no need for granit tons of back up systems on and on. Capable of about a 30 knot cruise. New out the door about or below the million mark. It would blow the doors off the custom boys. I would order one in the morning. Or at least if Freebird or Scott would co sign or make a loan.

Tim,

I would be happy to co-sign for you!

Whose name would you like me to use?

Jonathan

 

[Walter P]

Hell...be patriotic... John Hancock seem's like a good choice...

Walt

 

[Tim Powell]

Tim,

I would be happy to co-sign for you!

Whose name would you like me to use?

Jonathan

You guys getting horse before the cart . No boat yet but reckon you could sign Randy R? He has tuns of money just him to feed and he does not eat much

 

[pizzazsdaddy]

Yea...my whole point is the same as what a guy like Tom Slane does. The structural integrity and the intelligence of design makes an old Hatteras (or for that matter an old Chris Craft) WORTH RESTORING. To remanufacture an old Carver or Marine Trader etc. would be lunacy. So would buying a new "Prestige" for $1.3 Million.

Show me a guy who wants to restore an old Jefferson, and I'll show you a guy who shouldn't be allowed to own a gun!

 

[saltshaker]

Yea...my whole point is the same as what a guy like Tom Slane does. The structural integrity and the intelligence of design makes an old Hatteras (or for that matter an old Chris Craft) WORTH RESTORING. To remanufacture an old Carver or Marine Trader etc. would be lunacy. So would buying a new "Prestige" for $1.3 Million.

Show me a guy who wants to restore an old Jefferson, and I'll show you a guy who shouldn't be allowed to own a gun!

This summer I met a guy who is rebuilding a mid 40s mid'80s Jefferson that sank to the hard top. He also had a late 70s Grady white that looked like it went through a war and lost. The storage alone here in NJ would be more than either boat is worth.

 

[Boatsb]

Everyone has a favorite design or layout that they believe to be the best.

I love the ride of my 41 and the efficiency of its design. Cons are it's a wet boat in weather. The layout of the staterooms and head is old school and not comfortable by today's standards and for wives it's just not pretty enough.

If I had to do it all over I would change.

The v berth
The head
The galley
The stateroom
The closets and storage
The engines
The electical panel
The windows



So if you get my point restoration of the old girl to original still leaves a lot to be desired. I'd not put a fully restored 40 year old boat up against a new one . As a solid ride it's great but it's not a new boat.

 

[Walter P]

Actually Pascal is doing just about everything on the list of "upgrades" from engines, electrical, heads, galley up, stateroom changes etc. I believe he has the skills to accomplish his task and I look forward to seeing the finished product, as well as asking him how much he spent. Obviously his cost would be much less considering he is supplying his own labor.

 

[Boatsb]

If I were redoing my boat I'd not be doing it that way. I'm talking not only moving bulkheads and utilities but a design that looks intentionally planned and executed.

A true refit would reflect the lines and curves of the boat and also use modern materials and methods for weight, function and finish.