New Hatteras Classic Models!

[Boss Lady]

Got your attention with that one, didn't I? I got excited just thinking about it. I had to find the all glass hull that I wanted and strip it. But what if Hatteras did it and followed the blue print but with some modernization???? I would sign up tomorrow, well maybe in a year after I get my baby back in the water, but if they made something close I would definitely be interested.

I made mention of this on another thread and it got me to thinking, what if Hatteras really made some 50 class classics. More traditional boats, full glass hulls, quality materials, mimimal gimmicky electronic stuff, a realistic sized generator instead of the multiple gensets that could power half a city, quality wood interior, but keep things toned down a bit from a full blown, over the top wannabe mega yacht. I mean boat instead of a yacht. Just like our classics now. It would be a great boat. There is nothing on the water that would touch it. I went looking for a 45-55 footer and was so disappointed with the direction that these boats have gone, that I undertook the pain of refurbishing/redesigning a boat, so far it has taken almost two years, but it will be worth it. Only Hatteras could do this right. The other wanna be boat companies can't match Hatteras, they haven't even caught up to the old boats. Maybe someone from corporate will take notice and start talking to some of us about this. I really like the 68C and the 77 but they don't fit my lifestyle right now, and I don't have time for the headaches of a boat that size and complexity. After I really retire or at least have the time to justify playing with a $6M dollar toy, I will be interested, but not now. What do you guys think?

 

[luckydave215]

Before we bought a series I 60' convertible, we looked at (almost) new ones, and decided we liked the layout and personality (traditional) of the series I better.
I can afford almost any brand new boat of my chioce. After wiping the new boat glitter and (useless in San Diego) speed out of my eyes, I chose the boat I really wanted.
I hate the look of teardrop windows and cramped engine rooms, my wife hates the impracticality of cut down galleys, (crawl on the deck to see in the fridge? NO WAY) and we both think not having portholes is incredibly stupid. Style over function has no place in a boat. We've been boating for 50 years, and we got over that bs long ago.
In our opinion, Proper Yachts have teak interiors with cream or white colored overheads. Mirrors, pastels, and whitewash are for Elvis's condo.
If Hatteras made a new one of my curent boat, I might buy one just to have everything new, but I'm not going to hold my breath.........

 

[Freebird]

What do you guys think?

I think like you think! It would be a great idea IMHO, but I think the path you have chosen will prove to be more cost effective. You'll end up with a "new" boat exactly the way you want it as opposed to accepting a compromise as to what a boat builder, even Hatteras, thinks you should have.

Chris and I talked on the phone about this subject, and I told him I view his restoration of his classic like a rotisserie style classic auto restoration. You can do it in one fell swoop and end up with a new "old" classic, or you can spend the rest of your life fixing things as they break and making one improvement at a time. Problem with that is, your boat will always be a mixture of new and old repairs and/or restoration areas. I would consider this type of restoration on my 58, but I know myself better than that. I will end up with a larger Hatt, and total restorations only make sense if you plan to keep a boat for a looong time. If I can't find a semi-perfect 70CMY when the time comes, maybe I'll make a perfect one as I can't ever see going larger than 70 feet.

Hatteras would do well IMHO to offer a new "classic" 53, for example. It would give those who want to own a true classic a new boat, but have no desire to undertake a restoration project. It could sport all the really useful new technology, but retain it's classic looks and design. Talk about the best of both worlds.

I made mention of this in an earlier thread as well that I believe Hatteras and many other boat builders will follow the auto industry trend of going to retro designs. It's working well in that industry, and I think it would work even better in the boating industry.

Well, you asked!!!

 

[egaito]

I think some of this sentiment is already reflected in the market. The resurgence of the Chris Craft name has been based on retro designs for example. The "lobster boat" phenomenon also appears to be rooted in tradition. In the "big boat" world, there are a lot of working boat conversions into expedition yachts, where form definately takes a back seat to function. Most of the trawlers out there seem to be of classic designs, with much more understated interiors that still feature wood rather than toss a few pieces in for accent.

Of course, if you leave the realm of 'production boats', you can have anything you like. I think I'd go that route if I ever went 'new' again. Something a lot like Sanctuary, but with a bit more beam, a cockpit of course, a day head on the main level, commercial rated (vs. pleasure) engines, or perhaps even diesel-electric power, which seems to be close to ready for prime time in smaller vessels.

I wonder what the delta would be for a new custom vs. production boat.....it would be even more interesting to compare US to Chinese or Tiawanese construction....they've come a long way over there.

Since we're dreaming, I might have the hull and superstructure built offshore, and then bring her over for joinery, systems and interior work. Of course, since I've got the money and time for this, I'm going to spend some time "over there" watching her go together properly, and making sure old shop rags don't become part of her layup -

 

[SeaEric]

There are some interesteing Classic new boats coming from overseas. I own a little 22' diesel powered launch built in Turkey (in 2002) by Tacarboat. Its a wonderful little boat and very reasonable priced. New around $40K. See it here: http://www.tacarboat.com/turkce/galon6_65m.htm

We're all familiar with Vicem Yacht, also from Turkey. Their 58 at FLIBS was very impressive. I could see myself owning that boat. Price tag is $1.6m. Yikes!

There are other builders producing Classics that you have not heard of. Carienda is one. The base price of their 50 is $479,000. Very affordable. See their site: http://www.carianda-yachts.com/

There is clearly the market for the retro boats. The key for Hatt would be pricing and the cost effectiveness on building a motoryacht and in 50' range. I think that is what prevents it happening. This is also why they don't build the smaller SF boats anymore.

 

[67hat34c]

Wonder if they have any of the molds around our are they all on the bottom off NC coast?. If they still have molds then I wonder if they were to try to offer as a custom and test the market that way. Wonder if Tom Slane would build it for them? Could not think of a better person to head up a project like that.

 

[Boss Lady]

I for one understand the business aspects of Hatteras leaving the small boats behind, if I have paying customers who want increasingly larger and more expensive boats, then I would be following the money too. I think however that this is a market that Hatteras can recapture and tie them back to the basis for founding the company. I manufacture and there are some things we make because customers expect them, nothing glamorous, but they are profitable, and I deem them essential to our business. Everyone is in search of the bigger deal, and wants to break new ground, but if Hatteras doesn't do this then eventually someone will come out with a real quality boat in the 40-60 foot range. Heck I might even do it, I have been talking to Gary Grant of AMSgrant, a naval architect, he mostly does megayachts, but he really likes smaller boats. I like his designs too. Very efficient hulls. I think that new boats are off the mark. Most of them are more like floating condos that boats. They also have very complex systems on them. I saw too many pop up and down things in the galley and salons at FLIBS, to name a few things that I feel are off base on a boat, Just wait until you have a problem with that. Outside of Hatteras and a few custom builders, the materials used are not up to the marine environment and deteriorate quickly, just go look at a 5 year old Sea Ray or other marque, and you will see what I am talking about. I guess the next best thing to new would be to find Hat hulls and refit them with a few changes and update all the systems. I am proving it can be done. The only other thing to do is figure out how to build hulls. This is why it makes sense for Hatteras to do this.

 

[luckydave215]

Imagine how much faster on less power (fuel) our boats would be if the hulls were resin infused instead of hand layup construction? They would be higher strength, but lighter, without sacrificing the solid wood interiors we love. I'll bet my boat has 10,000 pounds of extra resin in her that aren't contributing anything to strength, but wasting power and fuel to lug around. In addition, resin infused hulls are thinner for the same strength, so there would be more room inside the hull for the same outside dimensions.
If the bulkheads were made of fiberglass composite honeycomb (with the afromosia veneer on the outside), there would be further improvements in overall efficiency, and no plywood in the bilge to cause potential rot problems down the road. By carefully selecting which parts of the boat to make out of lighter weight modern materials, the center of gravity can be lowered, and therefore stability improved without sacrificing any of the build quality, ride, and creature comforts we have come to expect from boats of this caliber.
How would you like your 53my to plane at 1400 rpm? Less engine stress, more range, less $$ at the pump.
Modern 7 axis cnc machined props and isolated drives to improve shaft angle would be a definite efficiency improvement as well, and be much smoother running.
I wouldn't "modernize" the hull shape, Hatt got that right the first time, and the styling is timeless, no changes needed.

 

[Genesis]

The problem with such a design is that the marketing folks say nobody would buy it given how it would have to be priced for the quality that's in there.

Big rotary shore/gen selector switches? Any idea how expensive those are? Nobody uses them any more - you know why? $$$$

There's a lot of stuff in an old Hatt that's done this way because its the right way and damn the cost. Nobody does stuff like that any longer - but they should.

Anyway, I'd love to see the 45, for example, done in resin-infused EPOXY, with NIDA cored bulkheads, deck and interior. Impervious to the rot monster, stronger than the old ones, and, with the big engines down low and little deckhouse weight, she'd probably ride BETTER than the old ones.

Keep the keel though - I like the grounding protection. Ever see one of the new "fast boats" after its hit something - even something soft like mud or sand? Tens of thousands in damage, and sometimes struts and such ripped clear out of the hull. Why? They're the lowest thing in the water....

Problem is that the marketing folks - and buyers - have spoken. A fine entry carried well aft doesn't leave you with a cavernous interior - but that's what people want. There's a tradeoff between seakeeping and interior volume, and usually the interior volume and glitz wins in modern designs.

Unfortunately.

 

[Boss Lady]

Resin infusion allows for meeting design weights due to the quality control inherent in the technology, this also prevents cost overun, since you are not wasting resin. It has shown to improve strength too, by maintaining a precise fiber to resin ratio. The big rotary switches Karl refers to are still used in industrial applications, and I just bought a brand new one for $284 from the manufacturer, retail is $800, so go figure why things cost so much, too many middlemen, who add nothing but cost. The current method is to use a slide lock and standard breakers, much cheaper but also crude. But these are considerations that could be made. I don't think it is a question of wether the market will bear the cost of such a boat, it is a matter of how much profit per unit is there? Production volume is a controlling factor since you can only produce so many boats per year in a given manufacturing space. It is only logical to pursue the boats that will yield the most revenue. With more competitors in the market causing price pressures the 50 class market would look less profitable. I ask how much profit is enough and how much is too little? I am saying is that Hatteras could offer this up to keep a presence in the middle ground. If you buy a 50 foot viking and are familiar with the company, are you going to switch horses when you decide to move up or will you stay? My bet is you will stay. Less people know who or what a Hatteras really is I talk to boat people all the time, and Hatteras is considered unobtainable by most, and they typically don't want an old boat. Hatteras needs something in the $1M price class or else they will only be available to the truely wealthy and not the well off.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

The problem with such a design is that the marketing folks say nobody would buy it given how it would have to be priced for the quality that's in there.

Big rotary shore/gen selector switches? Any idea how expensive those are? Nobody uses them any more - you know why? $$$$

There's a lot of stuff in an old Hatt that's done this way because its the right way and damn the cost. Nobody does stuff like that any longer - but they should.

Anyway, I'd love to see the 45, for example, done in resin-infused EPOXY, with NIDA cored bulkheads, deck and interior. Impervious to the rot monster, stronger than the old ones, and, with the big engines down low and little deckhouse weight, she'd probably ride BETTER than the old ones.

Keep the keel though - I like the grounding protection. Ever see one of the new "fast boats" after its hit something - even something soft like mud or sand? Tens of thousands in damage, and sometimes struts and such ripped clear out of the hull. Why? They're the lowest thing in the water....

Problem is that the marketing folks - and buyers - have spoken. A fine entry carried well aft doesn't leave you with a cavernous interior - but that's what people want. There's a tradeoff between seakeeping and interior volume, and usually the interior volume and glitz wins in modern designs.

Unfortunately.

The keel is great. How fast can a boat go that doesn't have a keel after it hits the mud with the props? Resin infusion is the way to go for sure. Better is using pre-preg cloth that is set off in an autoclave. That is how they build high end racing sailboats. Using carbon fibre and Kevlar instead of fiberglass used to be way too costly.Now I can build with carbon fibre for a bit less than fiberglass. From looking at the current Hatteras brochures, I don't think they use resin infusion. If they do it would only be for the actual hull molding, not stringers or bulkheads.

 

[jim rosenthal]

Several years back, I asked Bryant Phillips, who was, I think, senior VP at Hatteras Yachts, about this, in the context of asking if they would make a small boat again. I wanted to know if they were going to build a convertible in the 40-45 foot range. The answer at the time was "it isn't cost effective". The final answer turned out to be "we're buying CABO". 'Nuff said.

I also asked him about retro boats. I personally think this is a great idea, but it kind of falls apart when you look at it with a critical financial eye. The number of people who would pay to own a brand-new old-style Hatteras is rather small, since it would cost as much or more than a new-style Hatteras which would also be brand new. I don't think the tooling for the older boats still exists, or if it does, it is in such bad shape it would have to be totally reconditioned- a lot of these molds were left outdoors. Finally, the build quality of older Hatteras Yachts is so good that if you want an old one that runs like new, it's easy to do what many of us are doing- finding an older yacht and restoring and updating it. This is the kind of thing that keeps Slane's shop busy.

What might be very cool would be a modern Hatteras yacht that incorporated the improvements in hull design and ships' systems, but with a retro look to the exterior and inside spaces. However, it would require a great deal of tooling and planning and might not sell well enough to justify its existence. It would certainly be an expensive experiment.

Bertram Yachts reissued their 31 series as, I think, a 25th anniversary model. They didn't make many, they cost a lot, and they are, I believe, collectors' items today. But that is a lot smaller boat and they had kept their tooling. Which, in retrospect, might have been prudent for Hatteras to have done.

NOW- a question, to stimulate further debate: keeping in mind that there are generally enough examples of the more popular Hatteras Yacht models around, so that you can usually find a decent one- if you were going to pick ONE model each of the convertible and motoryacht series for them to resurrect, that you would agree to buy new, which one would it be? This ought to be interesting.

 

[Boss Lady]

My two personal favorites are the 48 Yachtfish and the 53 Convertible. The Yachtfish needs 3 more feet of cockpit, and they both need more power to be perfect (25 knot cruise). My next project will be a 53C just add spice!

 

[Paul45c]

NOW- a question, to stimulate further debate: keeping in mind that there are generally enough examples of the more popular Hatteras Yacht models around, so that you can usually find a decent one- if you were going to pick ONE model each of the convertible and motoryacht series for them to resurrect, that you would agree to buy new, which one would it be? This ought to be interesting.

Wasn't their most popular series ever the 1510 (combined with convertible and MY designs and derivatives). That'd proabably be the one. Problem is, even present or past 1510 owners could think of a bunch of improvements they'd want, such that the boats and designs could change considerably. Might not end up with the total honest-to-original retro I think your question intended, Jim.

 

[Boss Lady]

the 53 is a great layout, the problem is that it never had the benefit of adequate power. I have fished two and been aboard a 3rd, and they were all "Slooooowwwww"! Which is ok for a MY, but not a sportfisher. To go 50 miles offshore is a 5 hour sojourn and 5 hours back, so on a day trip you don't get many hours of fishing.

 

[Paul45c]

This is a really interesting discussion on so many levels. The quality and hull design issues have been dissected well; good points all.

Back to the key question, would an older-type Hatt design appeal to the modern buyer if the boat was manufactured new today. I really don't know. "Everything old is new again," and as Ed G. pointed out, the "picnic" boats (nor-easter lobster boat semi-displacement hulls) have had quite a trendy resurgence, and their manufacturers are getting a pretty impressive buck for them. That tells me traditional boats have a market, and one that can attract serious dollars. Not sure how long those boats will be back in vogue, but there's no denying their present popularity. The really old and traditional sportfish designs are still attracting HUGE bucks in the form of Merritt, Rybovich, Davis, etc., etc., so that's proof that the really traditional-looking sportfish made new today can get the bucks. The only question that leaves is whether that market can be revisited in the guise of midsize sportfish. Merritt, as an example, used to make boats as small as 37', I think. Their smallest model now is the 73, and I heard they might even drop that. I think Rybo is similar. Davis still makes boats on the topside of the midsize, I believe, but who knows for how much longer.

Hatts, at least in convertibles from the 70's to late 80's are in a funny place in terms of design. We all love them, but they are somewhere in between the old-school very traditional SF's and the modern curvy creations from Bertram, Viking, Riviera, etc. Harder-edged and less wood than the traditionals, and much simpler & cleaner than the modern bubbles. And way less power and speed. That'd probably have to change to keep up with the modern market.

MY's? My guess is older Hatt style MY's would not sell with the kind of cocktail cruising crowd that look for those kinds of boats today. There's no denying the great looks of the classic Hatt MYs, but I can't think of even one out there by any other name that looks anything like a Hatt from even 80's vintage. That market seems to have drastically changed, definitely not for the better.

Sorry to be so long-winded.

 

[Boss Lady]

Just go to yacht world and look at engine hours on some of the new style boats, I looked at 63 Sea Ray that only averaged 10 hour per year, and many others have extremely low hours. These are the dock queens that are literally floating condos. I would imagine that they never really get used much except for occasional short afternoon cruise. I guess that we are out numbered and the current market rules. It was a nice thought anyway.

 

[thoward]

I would say the the 53 or the 60 Convertable are a wise choice for they both scream classic Hatteras. As far as MYs, I never really got in to them....

 

[Finalee]

Manual for ap 200 autopilot

Does anyone have a manual they would be willing to copy? I will gladly pay for it. My 1971 43 dc has an auotopilot that does nothing. Think the manual is the best place to start.

 

[eze2bme]

Three years ago when I toured the Hatteras plant they said that the molds for the 43, 53 and several other models (maybe 58 too) were cut up and sent offshore for a fishing reef project off of North Carolina. I mentioned that if they still had the 53 molds I'd order one ... know what the salesman said? ... you and a bunch of other folks too!

My ideal Hatteras? A 53ED with a galley up option and the old galley space spread out for another head and better closet for the guest stateroom, washer/dryer area and storage. A new technology hull that would be lighter and room for some 12v71 Naturals.