New electronics

[rwappleton]

We are considering adding AIS, Auto Pilot and Radar. Does not look like the boat has ever had any of these. Platform is 79 43DC Garmin 4212 at main helm 4208 on FB Raymarine depthfinder all less than 2 years old. installed NMEA 2000.

Questions are:

What brand and estimated price?

Reason for selection?

Our plan is for a hinged arch so we can clear the loop bridge.

Suggestions?

Many thanks!

Becky and Russ

 

[gbharrington]

Just a couple of thoughts which many will probably take exception to. Autopilot is a BIG workload saver, so yes. Unless you're doing offshore at night or in very foul weather, I think your money would be better spent on something else other than radar or AIS.
I await the bloodletting.

 

[rwappleton]

Hi Greg!

We are planning on adding all three. Our dilemma has been what brands and why? I personally have found it almost impossible to get a price for the equipment from the manufacturer. I see prices for units not systems with few exceptions.

The one we are struggling with is radar. We are NOT an all weather or regular night operation (only in known familiar waters)

Our travels will be close in or ditch daylight operation.

 

[SeaEric]

I have a Garmin 740S Chart Plotter with a plug and play transducer for depth. Bought for size to fit in the overhead console and price was right as a new replacement model was coming out. Only bad thing is it is not network-able. Not an issue for me as I have only one helm. I found that the small depth readout in the corner was not prominent enough for my near senior citizen eyes, so I added a GMI 10 display unit which is plug and play on the NEMA to display only the depth. I have the Garmin GHC 10 Auto-Pilot with the "Smart Pump" and I can't say enough good about it. It's wonderful. If you do the Garmin AP make sure you get the "rudder feedback" sensor. They say its optional - It's NOT. You need it and it also provides rudder angle indication on the GHC 10 display. I have the wireless remote. Makes me feel like a big shot. I do not have radar, but if I did I would get the GMR 18 HD which is plug and play. I'm very pleased with the Garmin stuff. It works good and was easy to learn and use. I have about $800 in the 740S, bought on a close out sale. The transducer is the type that's glued inside the hull. Works perfectly and it was cheap. GHC 10 was bought used from an installer for $150. Install on those was simple. The auto pilot was about $4,500 in hardware and the professional install was around $2,000. on my boat. The AP has to be by the book as to power supply, etc. It's not for the do-it-yourselfer. If I wanted the HD radar scanner I think its around $1,100. Again, its plug and play. I don't know about AIS but I think I read somewhere that a phone app, tablet or Ipad can do that if you think it's important.

 

[davidwigler]

I have Raymarine. You need a PhD to operate it. A friend just installed Garmin 15" touchscreens with digital radar and sonar and it is phenomenal! The technology is far superior and cost is lower than ever.

Consider going to a local boat show to get pricing.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

If you are tying these into your existing Garmin units, it seems the most logical answer would be to go with all Garmin. I have the same two Garmin plotters, but my Radar and AP are older. I will never get rid of my old color Furuno radar until it dies. I love that thing. And, BTW, I still think radar is the most important piece of equipment on the boat after the compass.

 

[saltshaker]

No direct experience with agar in but based on what you have is go with a Garmin package. AIS is a great piece of equipment particularly if you often run in busy commercial waters. Radar is a must for me. The new HD domes are very good and would be a good choice for the way you boat.

 

[sandspur1966]

Since you are committed and it is just a matter of brand, my opinions are the radar and AIS are garmin because they most easily tie into your existing backbone and screens. Others may disagree as some folks like the redundancy of a separate screen.

I think the open issue for me would be autopilot. If I were in your shoes, installing it where nothing exists, I would feel a strong tug to go Garmin across the board. That said, I have never owned a vessel of any size Without a Simrad/Robertson autopilot and absolutely swear by them.

 

[jim rosenthal]

The Garmin autopilot is actually the (more developed) TRS-1 Gladiator, which came out several years ago. It was so much better than anything else made at the time that Garmin bought the entire company and their patents in order to get the autopilot as intellectual property. Time has shown the wisdom of that acquisition, as everyone I know who has the autopilot has raved about how good it is. Since you already have Garmin units, I would go with their autopilot.

I have Northstar navigation gear on my boat, but when I can no longer get it repaired and have to replace it, the replacement will be Garmin, unless (not likely) someone has come out with something better. Of the brands out now (Furuno, Raymarine, Simrad, and Garmin) Garmin seems the easiest to use, the best value, and the most popular. The others are good, but Garmin would get my vote. I am still disgusted with Simrad for buying the Northstar company and then pulling the plug on the Northstar brand. Northstar deserved better.

 

[captainwjm]

I'd stay w/all Garmin. IMHO, AIS is important enough that I'd chose it over radar, especially if most of your running is rivers or ICWW. For the Loop, I'd say it is a must have. That said, for the relatively minor (in boating terms) cost of the radar, I can't imagine why you wouldn't add both while doing this upgrade.

 

[bobk]

Is the 'new' Garmin autopilot the one that has linear accelerometers to sense a quartering sea? If so, that would be a big upgrade over the older technology flux gate products.


Bobk

 

[rwappleton]

Thanks so much for all the input!!!! Ya'll have no idea how much we appreciate the sharing of knowledge.

I have spoken to the Garmin dealer in Destin and he is not a fan of the Garmin auto pilot. He claims Garmin is difficult to deal with on repairs. I do not want to buy anything that I have to repair anytime soon. Does anyone have operational experience with the Garmin? As for radar I was focused on the GMH 24HDX. My reasons are having used aviation radar for 35 years I know I can "train" myself in good weather to be able to use this valuable tool when I need it.

He is also pushing the phased array which is 1600 more and while I am not so foolish as to think mother nature will not have an occasional surprise for us we already have XM weather which we have had use for several times and it is scary accurate and has allowed us to both wait and run from weather. My opinion is we will use the radar only in low visibility situations to see other traffic (that the AIS does not show) and only to get to a safer location. My opinion is the smaller radar will do just that but I am very interested in ya'lls.

We are planning on a folding arch for the radar. It will most likely only be folded to get under the bridge in Chicago. It will have only the Radar, maybe a TV antenna and the anchor light.

Any idea what this may cost.

Thanks!!!!

Becky and Russ

 

[SeaEric]

I had some initial set-up issues on my Garmin auto pilot. John Murch who is the Garmin Marine Training Specialist for Dealer Tech Support came to my boat and spent a half a day there with his installer to sort out a problem. I was very impressed with their support. John is the guy in the Garmin videos on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mhyY3zIDP4 There are several vids on the auto pilot which I would suggest watching. He said I was the first person to ever recognize him from the vids.

 

[Boatsb]

I had some initial set-up issues on my Garmin auto pilot. John Murch who is the Garmin Marine Training Specialist for Dealer Tech Support came to my boat and spent a half a day there with his installer to sort out a problem. I was very impressed with their support. John is the guy in the Garmin videos on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mhyY3zIDP4 There are several vids on the auto pilot which I would suggest watching. He said I was the first person to ever recognize him from the vids.

Garmin makes a great autopilot but it's a more complicated install. I've never needed to repair one and have always had them work right. Especially with the 2.1 and smart pumps. Yes they charge more for those pumps but they're worth it.

Raymarine also has a new autopilot that's awesome. And it can integrate easily as I have installed them with garmin MFD'S.

I sell more garmin than other electronics for a reason.

 

[saltshaker]

An open array will give you better imaging and more defined targets. It will also give you much better performance for long range. That being said 99% of the time a good dome will give you similar performance for your intended use. If you had a SF and we're looking for birds or if you were regularly doing long offshore runs, that would be a different story. A new quality HD dome should serve you well. I have heard great things about the Garmin autopilot. I know there were issues with them several years ago but don't think is true with the new units. I'm not a big fan of Raymarine either but the new autopilot is getting some high marks from those who use them. The Garmin stuff is well received but the product support is a bit weak when it comes time to fix them. My understanding is they require you to send them your unit then 9 times out of ten replace yours with a refurbished one. Hopefully some owners who've had issues can elaborate on their experiences. If you want too notch support, Furuno wins hands down but you'd be starting from scratch.

 

[Boatsb]

I've had 2 garmin units fail in the last 5 years. Considering I've installed a lot that's pretty good results. Maybe 1 in a hundred fail in the first year. Both units were repaired. Neither was replaced with a refurb but if it's as new and clean as the one I send in what would it matter?

Furuno is still the top tier products for the industry. Although they make great products many people won't spend the money for them.

 

[PeterK]

We put in a 6212, 6208 (flybridge),GMR24 HD dome, AIS 600, VHF 200 with a GHS 10 (corded handset) for the flybridge about 18 months ago and have been very pleased. I did not put the auto pilot on and regret not doing so. Our AP2000DL (thanks to a replacement control head from a HOF member!) works very well so I thought the $2000 could be used elsewhere. I did add the black box Sirius (from another HOF member) but had a hell of a time finding the Garmin antenna to go with it (wasn't include with the box).

A close friend who isn't very active here did put the Garmin AP on and loves it. The radar is fine for our use and I do like having the info from the AIS right in front of me. I don't scramble for the binocs anywhere near as often to try and get a name off a WAFI to let him know I'm going by (I meant giving a slow pass)... Let me know if you need WAFI clarified...

I love the equipment and have found it easy to use. The only issue I have had is that I did not buy a high end transducer and we lose depth anywhere between 150 and 800 feet. I have had it "jam" (the depth blinks the wrong depth) on occasion but it is easily corrected by a few button pushes. We went with the soft key MFDs in lieu of touch screen on the advice of several folks who prefer the solid finger feedback when bouncing in seas. They are slower when moving the cursor but I am not unhappy with the choice.

BTW I was all set to pull the trigger on Simrad for their broadband radar but the ease of use and much more reasonably price MFDs led me to ultimately buying the Garmin. I am pleased with the decision.

 

[saltshaker]

I've had 2 garmin units fail in the last 5 years. Considering I've installed a lot that's pretty good results. Maybe 1 in a hundred fail in the first year. Both units were repaired. Neither was replaced with a refurb but if it's as new and clean as the one I send in what would it matter?

Furuno is still the top tier products for the industry. Although they make great products many people won't spend the money for them.

I recently compared a new Furuno system against a new Garmin system. Furuno radars and sounders were much more expensive. Garmin displays were a bit cheaper on the smaller or mid range models but when you get up to their high end stuff the Furunos were about the same. In some areas the Furunos were less expensive for a complete system. For my desired set up the Furuno would be a little less expensive. I want a networked system with 17" glass displays. The Furuno system could do it with one black box but the Garmins required a black box per display. Garmin displays were slightly more than the Furunos but the big difference was needing 2 more black boxes at over $4K each.

 

[Boatsb]

I recently compared a new Furuno system against a new Garmin system. Furuno radars and sounders were much more expensive. Garmin displays were a bit cheaper on the smaller or mid range models but when you get up to their high end stuff the Furunos were about the same. In some areas the Furunos were less expensive for a complete system. For my desired set up the Furuno would be a little less expensive. I want a networked system with 17" glass displays. The Furuno system could do it with one black box but the Garmins required a black box per display. Garmin displays were slightly more than the Furunos but the big difference was needing 2 more black boxes at over $4K each.

Smaller systems are less expensive with Garmin. The big boy toys are all expensive but furuno has features the others don't that make it less costly. I wish I had room for a few 17" screens. Hell even one would be nice.

 

[carolinacoast]

For a clean sheet install, I would want to make sure that the radar could calculate and display a Closest Point of Approach and Time. Perhaps all of the units discussed offer that now. I have only experienced that safety feature on a furuno navnet setup that was 10 years old. Priceless on crossings. I don't have any intel on the new garmin AP, but the Robertson product with a hydraulic ram is pretty bulletproof. A friend has 100,000 (saling) miles in the ocean on one, and will never own another AP brand. It connects to nothing, just the way he likes it. But he does have a remote.

Perhaps this is extreme overkill for your mission. I personally would not buy raymarine over garmin. Garmin does continue to innovate and take market share in the aviation market, and that engineering should help the marine products. An AIS receiver would be an inexpensive add on, instead of the transponder. By having the full AIS capability, friends and family can follow from home, which is very cool.