Need outboard help....

[Pascal]

I'm trying to revive this outboard that Mario found in his father in law's garage and gave me... THANKS !!!

from what i've found it looks like a yamaha built Mariner 30... no idea what year... there are no serial number or any marking. Reason i believe it's a mariner 30 is from the prop (assuming it's original) and from an ad on small outboard.com for an identical engine.

it fired right up (almost) after i put in new plug. Carb is clean, looked new inside but it's not giving full power/RPM... sounds like a misfire although most ouboard sound like they're misfiring anyway. it doesn quite get the 13 footer on plane.. i added some quickie starboard trim tabs, it helps but the engine doens' thave enough power.

new plugs, clean carb, clean filter, new/clean fuel/tank. using the bulb to push more fuel doens't help so i assume it's not the fuel pump.

i don't have a manual yet... i need to get a compression gauge to check cyl. condition. I've tried adjusting misture screw, no luck. choke works, engine looses RPM when choke is pulled.

does any one know how you check/adjust the timing on these ? i see timing marks on the flywheel but can't figure it out... it's not like you can turn the distributor.

any help in pinpointing a year and confirming model welcome !

 

[Passages]

You've tried all the stuff I would have done. I'd run a compression check next. If its weak, well then the poor old beast is giving you everything it has short of an expensive rebuild.

 

[shvldis]

I see that you have replaced the plugs, but did you check the spark? It is very rare that timing would change on these motors, unless mucked with by a PO. Inproper timing normally causes poor performance or hard starting, not and engine misfire. Try shorting spark plugs to ground individually to help determine which cyl is the problem.

 

[Pascal]

i have spark, jumps aroun 1"to 1 1/2 " when pulling the plug wire.

but... when i pull the wire on plug nr 1, engine stops... when I pull the wire on plug nr 2 RPM drops a little but engine keeps on running... that tells me that cyl nr 2 is weak.

will get a compression gauge to check compressions...

 

[(Nobody You Know)]

Blaise,

it's possible that the armiture/magnito has accumulated just enough fine rust over time to create misfire. If it's a two cylinder you can sand each unit with fine sand paper and, with a little luck, this may solve the problem (though outboards continuously exposed to salt water environment will eventually require the replacement of the armiture contacts). This proceedure requires pulling the flywheel. Don't confuse this situation with a "contact/points" issue.

Good luck!

 

[krush]

Hey there, You can listen to me or not, but I've worked on probably a hundred or so outboards in my young career!

First, you said the carb looks clean. You need to take that thing off, take it apart and SOAK it overnight in some carb cleaner. CRC makes some stuff and napa carries it too. it's really nasty shit that will get all the gunk out of the carb. After soaking, you wash it with water and then blow all the holes with compressed air.

Do that first and THEN worry about other stuff. 95% of the time that is the problem. I have not bought a used motor yet that didn't need it's carb(s) cleaned. They sit in the garage over the winter and get gunked up.

As for the timing, on the outboards you just set the max advance. Often (depending on brand/model) the idle is set by adjusting the timing. Many times they come from the factor with a grease pen or mark on the timing screw to show if anybody has fiddled with it.

But like I said, soak and blow that carb clean first....after doing a compression test.

edit: and what do you mean by "look inside the carb"?


edit 2: that looks like a yamaha (fuel filter, carb, shifter, and abundence of grease fittings give it away....coming from a mechanical engineer, they know how to design stuff nice motors). In fact, looks the same as the 25hp I picked up the other year at a garage sale for 500 (brand new). It needed a carb cleaning too!

 

[Pascal]

thks... i'm very unfamiliar with outboards so advice welcome !

I pulled the carb off, pulled the bowl and the adjustable needle and they looked new. no dirt, do gum, not even a stain, it looked like someone put a brand new carb on this thing and never ran any fuel thru it.

it is a yamaha built unit, that's for sure, there is Y logo on the block. What made me think it's a yamaha built Mariner is this ad i found for an absolutely identical engine :

http://www.smalloutboards.com/mar30.htm

going to get a comp gauge later on this week and start there.

 

[(Nobody You Know)]

Good luck on that thing.

Must be something very sentimental about the flag hanging in the background??

 

[yachtsmanbill]

Thats the original Mt Suribachi flag ! PRICELESS !! This is from todays Chicago Suntimes. ws


Charles W. Lindberg

RICHFIELD, Minnesota (AP) - Charles W. Lindberg, one of the U.S. Marines who raised the first American flag over Iwo Jima during World War II, has died. He was 86.

Lindberg spent decades explaining that it was his patrol, not the one captured in the famous Associated Press photograph by Joe Rosenthal, that raised the first flag as U.S. forces fought to take the Japanese island.

Lindberg - no relation to Charles Lindbergh the aviator - died Sunday, said John Pose, director of the Morris Nilsen Funeral Home.

In the late morning of Feb. 23, 1945, Lindberg joined five other Marines fighting their way to the top of Mount Suribachi.

"Two of our men found this big, long pipe there," he said in an interview with The Associated Press in 2003. "We tied the flag to it, took it to the highest spot we could find and we raised it.

"Down below, the troops started to cheer, the ship's whistles went off, it was just something that you would never forget," he said. "It didn't last too long, because the enemy started coming out of the caves."

The moment was captured by Sgt. Lou Lowery, a photographer from the Marine Corps' Leatherneck magazine. It was the first time a foreign flag flew on Japanese soil, according to the book "Flags of Our Fathers," by James Bradley with Ron Powers.

By Lindberg's account, his commander ordered the first flag replaced and safeguarded because he worried someone would take it as a souvenir. Lindberg was back in combat when six men raised the second, larger flag about four hours later.

Rosenthal's photo of the second flag-raising became one of the most enduring images of the war and the model for the U.S. Marine Corps memorial in Washington.

No one, Lindberg said, believed him when he said he raised the first flag at Iwo Jima. "I was called a liar," he said.

In 1954, Lindberg was invited to Washington for the dedication of the Marine memorial. It carried the names of the second group of flag-raisers, but not the first.

 

[(Nobody You Know)]

Gee, I didn't know "Blaise" was that old.

 

[krush]

I pulled the carb off, pulled the bowl and the adjustable needle and they looked new. no dirt, do gum, not even a stain, it looked like someone put a brand new carb on this thing and never ran any fuel thru it.

It may look clean, but there are tiny little holes and stuff up in the body of the carb. All it takes is one little piece of gunk in the jet or spray bar to screw it all up.

I've pulled ones that looked "clean" under the bowl too, but the damn thing wouldn't do anything but idle on 2 of 4 cylinders. Soaked it over night, blew out...when I was done it looked exactly like it did when I started so I began to second guess myself. I put the carbs back on and guess what....ran like a charm. It was so perfect that I barely adjust any mixture screws.

 

[31FlyCruzr]

Sorry this is a little long, and assumes we are talking two cycle engine.

From what I read, you know the number 2 cylinder is weak, and I believe the small engines are single carb, so that should rule out the carb.

Did you double check the spark on number 2?

If compression is low, pull the carb and look inside the engine, the reed valve looks like a flower or a set of fingers, again concentrate on number 2 for discrepancies and compare to number 1 which is working much better. Essentialy Reed's are light leaf srings that are necessary for the 2 cycle to make compression, (they keep the mixture from being pushed out the intake when the piston starts up on compression). If they are damaged or not closing due to debris, you will have low compression. I don't think this is a high probability but it is easy to check before more challenging disassembly.

If the reeds look good and you have low compression, it may be the head gasket. Had a west Bend that blew the head gasket. The leak will push the compression into the water jacket, so it is not obvious until the head is removed and you inspect the gasget for leakage/damage.

If you think the gasket was ok try soaking the cylinder with something that might free carboned up rings, I'd try carb cleaner to break down the carbon, followed by Marvel mystery oil which helps free rings and will thoroughly lubricate after the carb cleaner drys the surfaces.

Best of luck
Bill

 

[Pascal]

thks... i'll check the reeds ! (yes, 2 cyl, single carb)

spark is equally strong to both cyl.

one thing i just realize is that when i got it plug nr 2 was missing... no idea how long it was stored without the plug but maybe moisture got in and damged the cyl. or rings...

I'll check the reeds tomorrow and compression...

 

[krush]

I'm not going to get into a pissing match, but a broken reed will not cause no/low compression. On the outboards they are metal and hardly ever break anyway. If one does break or a tip breaks off, the motor usually looses 100-200 rpm at WOT. Cranking compression isn't going to be affected tremendously by a broken reed. We can just agree to disagree though .

Having the motor run with 1 plug wire off but having it stall with the other off on a two cylinder may or may NOT provide any useful information. On sea-doo jetski's, u can do that trick and when you pull one wire off, the spark dies to BOTH cylinders.

This is my last post, and you are free to do what you please, but I used to turn wrenches for a living (it's what put me through the majority of college) and I've seen problems just like you described. It's best to ensure the simple things are working first...because the problem is usually simple. Check compression, clean the carb...then reevaluate.

BTW, I have that exact same engine (except it is a 25hp). Like I said before, it needed a carb cleaning when I got it! It was "clean" under the bowl too.

 

[Pascal]

checked compression today, got 125 on nr 1, 120 on nr 2 which seems decent and even enough.

going to clean the carb next...

how do i know that spark is good enough and that i dont' have an ignition problem? when pulling the wires, it jumps about 1" and seems consistent...

 

[krush]

if u get a 1inch jump your spark is plenty strong.

 

[Passages]

120/125 compression is fine. Spark seems good.

The only thing left is the carb. Give it a good cleaning, replace all wear points and fire it up. (Ummm - at the risk of asking the obvious, you are using fresh gas, yes?)

 

[Pascal]

yes, fresh gas, new tank and line.

 

[krush]

don't forget to blow thru all the little holes with compressed air.

 

[shvldis]

Seams like you have chased this down to a fuel mixture problem, Your spark is good, compression good, Leaves fuel mixture, Rich or lean? Does the plug look wet? If I Remember correctly the fuel pump gets vacume from the reed chamber of #2 Piston. A leaky fuel pump Diaphram can causes a rich mixture to the #2 Cyl. On the lean side, you have several considerations, carb, reeds, vacume leaks. If you richen the fuel mixture by partially choking the motor or restricting the carburator throat, does it run better? The carb is possible but kinda an unlikely source, this configuration single carb to two cyl, both cyl recieve almost the same fuel to air mixture,(top actually slightly leaner than bottom). Reed Valves- As previously stated reed valves will not alter cylnder compression, However, Broken, cracked or leaking reeds will effect the fuel mixture. the reeds are check valves allowing the fuel air mix to enter into the crankshaft chamber as the piston moves towards TDC to lube the bearings and prepare the charge mix for that cylinder. When the piston returns on the power stroke, the reeds close. This allows the pressure to build in the crank chamber, as the piston clears the ports, the fuel air mix is forced in, charging the cylinder and pushing out the exhaust gasses.