Mid 1990s Viking 60 CPMY your thoughts....

[northshoreone]

Have a friend looking at a mid 90s Viking CPMY with Mann 820 hp just under 3k hours just wondering about what everyone here thinks plus and minus about the boat or engines.
Thanks as always!

 

[SeaEric]

That model went from being a million dollar boat to a $250-350 ish boat, in it seems like no time at all. Don't overpay for one. The MAN's need to be surveyed very carefully by a MAN CERTIFIED mechanic. Do not compromise on that. They're good, long lasting engines that are frightfully expensive to fix when they break. Maintenance protocols are not cheap. It's adviseable to follow the scheduled maintenance as closely as you can to avoid costly failures. IMHO The boat itself is what it is: a robust US built battlewagon with a dated profile that has somewhat limited appeal to the current market. Sales are mostly driven by the cubic footage/price ratio.

 

[motoryacht lover]

I have a 95 54 with the 820 mans. That is the same boat without the cockpit. Overall I have been very satisfied with the boat. The man's have been very reliable but I have spent money keeping them up. The cons would be a somewhat disappointing head sea ride, house gel coat will most likely need repainting, salon Windows will most likely need replacement, the torsional couplings will most likely need replacing (25k L & M). The pros relatively fast 23 knot cruise at 60 per hour, good following sea ride (stable not too much fighting the steering wheel)lots of room in the engine room, very roomy aft deck and master stateroom, large bow area that accomodates a 13' dinghy, that is relatively easy to launch and retrieve. If you are older you make not like that the boat has a lot of levels/ stairs. I particularly like that the helm has a full glass windshield with wipers. Can't think of much else to add.

 

[saltshaker]

What Eric said. A rebuild on those engines will be close to if not more than what the boat will cost.

 

[northshoreone]

Thanks for your comments! I was afraid of the cost of the engine upkeep cost vs the cost of the boat! Does anyone have suggestions on a fifty plus foot model in the $300k range out there at the moment, prefer galley up? I see a few 65 Hatt sportfish out there....not a motor yacht but a faster cruise.

 

[Pascal]

Personally the MANs woudl be a deal killer as they are way too expensive to maintain. How about the 60 something Viking MY of that era? They had 1271s, nice engine rooms and a lot of space. Pretty good quality. I delivered one a few years back, nice boat. They were built in Tampa for Viking by Lazzara, before they went under their own name and Viking began selling rebadged Princess in the late 90s

 

[capttonyf]

Like mentioned above, it can be a bit of a stiff ride in a head sea, and the motors are extremely expensive to rebuild. I like the way the MANS Run but the maintenance is expensive. Like the difference between maintaining a car engine and a race car engine. That being said I Love the rest of the design. Huge aft deck, wide walk around decks, a small cockpit to fun fish, swim or dive from, and no ladders to climb on the whole boat. I know multiple levels can be an issue for some people but to have no ladders and only steps is great for older people, and kids alike. Tie all that in with a fast riding, convertible style, shallow draft hull, and you have the Perfect South FL, Bahamas/Keys Cruising boat, which is where we spend all our time. I would look for the 1050 or 1200HP powered optioned boat though before the 820. Maybe easier to resale.

You mentioned what else is out there? One of the members has a 1998 Hatteras 52 MY listed under boats for sale with CAT Power. I'd have that on the top of my list if I was looking for a 50-60 ft Motoryacht. Or like you mentioned don't be afraid of a Hatteras 54-65 Convertible. A 65 Convertible is a Great cruising boat that is at the top of the food chain when you talk about quality, solid ride and just in general a hell of a sea boat. It will run in nasty conditions with the best of any other Sportfish/Convertible boat ever produced. They will suck up a lot of fuel also if you run them hard, "BUT", if you run it at slower speeds it's every bit as efficient as a big Motoryacht. I personally Lean toward Convertibles because they give you the best of both worlds, Luxury accommodations of a motoryacht, but with speed and the BEST of sea keeping ability of any type of pleasure craft available.

When I grow up one day, my dream boat would be a 4 Stateroom 1997-1999 CAT Powered Hatteras 65 Convertible. The 70 Convertible is nice also, but a deeper draft, and well, there's just something about the look of the 65 that I really like. I can't put my finger on it, maybe the low cockpit freeboard and stepped sheer, or the shape of the boat house and bridge without all the round flowing curves of modern boats, I'm not sure. It just looks like a "Man's" boat, a man's boat that is just soft enough to appeal to women as well. It's a perfect balance of a low cockpit, and balanced house and bow length. The boat has a an elegant, handsome, yet chiseled look to it. A look that anyone walking the dock doesn't have to question it's purpose or it's capabilities. Again I can't put my finger on it but who ever drew up the final exterior design nailed it. That 65 will never look dated or out of place in any line up, in any marina, anywhere. It's like the Marlboro Man of boats.

Tony

 

[Pascal]

If you want the ability to go now, and not wait a day or two for weather, it's hard to beat a big convertible as a cruising boat. You still have good accommodation, a big cockpit to enjoy the water.

Now, if waiting a couple of days for things to settle down isn't a problem, then a stabilized MY is even better with a lot more room and amenities. Let's face it, most boats will take it but most people won't.... Especially friends, family and significant others.

Style wise I don't care much for the Viking CPMY/ Hatteras sports deck .... It's too much like someone took a sportfish and tacked on an aft master with aft deck on top. I see the layout appeal but a bit unpleasant to look at. Kind of like a motor sailer... Too much of a compromise.

 

[capttonyf]

If you want the ability to go now, and not wait a day or two for weather, it's hard to beat a big convertible as a cruising boat. You still have good accommodation, a big cockpit to enjoy the water.

Now, if waiting a couple of days for things to settle down isn't a problem, then a stabilized MY is even better with a lot more room and amenities. Let's face it, most boats will take it but most people won't.... Especially friends, family and significant others.

Style wise I don't care much for the Viking CPMY/ Hatteras sports deck .... It's too much like someone took a sportfish and tacked on an aft master with aft deck on top. I see the layout appeal but a bit unpleasant to look at. Kind of like a motor sailer... Too much of a compromise.

I agree about the ability to go now, and aside from enjoying fishing, that's one of the reasons I like having a convertible. With me still working for a living, and having school aged children, our vacations and travel days are pretty set, without much room for leeway. When we have to be there, or be back, we have to get up and go. Now granted we don't run if it's an unsafe situation obviously, but we also don't have time to wait for perfect days either.

Even though our boat is only 45 ft it handles comfortably in most any condition we're willing to go out in. Also I would much rather be in our 45 Convertible doing 20 +/- Knots then in a top heavy rolly polly 60 to 70 ft Motoryacht at 10/12 knots in rough conditions. Our last trip back from Bahamas leaving Paradise Island we headed home and a few 100ft Motoryachts waited. It was a little rough at times but it was comfortable and mostly a big following sea. Our boat did great and chugged right along, where I could see a a slower Motoryacht getting pushed around from behind causing it to pitch a lot.

So how your going to use the boat is definitely something to consider. If it's more of a livaboard/extended cruises, with only fair weather cruising and crossings then the Motoryacht will give you much more room and storage in a comparable length. If you plan on cruising around on shorter trips, and you have places where you need to be or get back to by a certain time then lean toward the convertible. That being said if you want the space and the speed just by a giant size convertible,,,,problem solved. It's only money right?

Tony

 

[Fanfare]

And since money is no object, take that 70 ft. MY, push the throttles all the way forward, get that big MF up on plane and go home! That's what these boats were made for, not to be GD trawlers.

 

[saltshaker]

and since money is no object, take that 70 ft. My, push the throttles all the way forward, get that big mf up on plane and go home! That's what these boats were made for, not to be gd trawlers.

x2!!!

 

[capttonyf]

And since money is no object, take that 70 ft. MY, push the throttles all the way forward, get that big MF up on plane and go home! That's what these boats were made for, not to be GD trawlers.

That would be nice but unfortunately some of these older 70/74 Motoryachts with DD 12V71's won't get on plane, and if they do it's only at WOT. So now your forced to run them like a damn trawler. Lol. I'd even go a step further and say I've seen more that won't get on plane or stay on plane then I have seen that will. They get to weighted down, and, or people have messed with wheels etc over the years to make them more efficient at slower speeds to where, now, they can't get out of there own way.

Tony

 

[doc g]

That's How I run our 74SD (Cat Power), slow and easy at 1000 rpm,10.4 K burning 13 gph...if it's nice out and we have the time. When it's snotty it's 1850rpm and 19.5 K, 64gph. or faster. The snottier it is the faster we run and the better the ride....Pat

 

[saltshaker]

That's How I run our 74SD (Cat Power), slow and easy at 1000 rpm,10.4 K burning 13 gph...if it's nice out and we have the time. When it's snotty it's 1850rpm and 19.5 K, 64gph. or faster. The snottier it is the faster we run and the better the ride....Pat

Are those 1350HP 3412s? A friend has the 1400HP in a 62 Ocean and he's says he's burning 98GPH at 1800 which I think is way too high.

 

[doc g]

Yea and that was measured with Cat's own laptops.When I surveyed pre purchase ....and that does sound high . I've heard of 74s burning 80 something at 1800 -1850 .....Pat

 

[doc g]

I think max for those is 150 GPH at 2350 rpm . I think mine reads 74-78 at 1850 on the onboard (Cat) displays but the techs said they do that on purpose . Mine runs out at 1850 , 50% load , 64 GPH . It's the sweet spot for this set up ......Pat

 

[Pascal]

my guess is that the ocean 62 will be going much faster at 98gph/1800, probably 25/27ktd?

Burn will depends on the boat, gearing, wheels, etc... The 2003 Johnson 70 MY I used to run has 1400hp 3412Es and woudl burn about 85gph at 1800 doing 20/21kts. For comparison the 2009 Lazzara 84 I m running now has 1650hp C32s (a development of the 3412) and burns 92gph at 1800 doing 22/23kts. Much bigger boat (actually 18' loa difference) yet burns less fuel at the same speed. For instance at 20kts we burn 68gph with the 84 vs 80 on the 70

At first I thought the cat ECUs were off but the tech assured me they can't be and the flow numbers were validated by actual refill.

 

[motoryacht lover]

I am not a MAN fan I would prefer big Cats in my next boat but I would not rule out a MAN powered boat for next boat. I came from Detroits and was scared to death of the MANs but a friend who had them talked me into it. I do my 1000 hr service every 2-3 years and it averages about 15,000 and I get all new (rebuilt) injectors and the 15 usually covers some things beyond the 1000 hr service. I Wonder if one ran the numbers but when you factor rebuilding Detroits every 2000 hrs do numbers get closer together when you consider that the 820 MANs typically are good for 4000 hrs or more. I do hear everyone on the costs of parts. I paid 8000 for an intercooler. But with the Detroits I had temperature creep that drove me crazy. I had to clean the heat X I think every year or I think I would pull them every other year and run solution through them on the in between years. In summary I think the cost of the MANs sometimes gets overblown some.

 

[Pascal]

I ve put almost 4000 hours on these 3412Es in 8 years and service costs have been around $5000 to $6000 every 1000 hrs combined. 5300 hours, no smoke, no soot and original injectors. I mean... They just keep on going and going and going with just oil changes and new impellers every three years. The only non scheduled part I had to replace in 8 years was one fuel cooler that developed a pin hole on the raw water side. $1000 part. Not bad.

That said, even Cat gets it wrong sometimes as with the aftercoolers on the earlier C32s. They ve had a number of failures due to a design issue and it's a $15k per engine upgrade. Now again, these are 1650hp V12s so... the aftercoolers are pretty big. Do you try to save $15k and risk a $160k engine? Nope... So in our case the owner bit the bullet and upgraded them after buying the boat...

 

[SeaEric]

That's How I run our 74SD (Cat Power), slow and easy at 1000 rpm,10.4 K burning 13 gph...if it's nice out and we have the time. When it's snotty it's 1850rpm and 19.5 K, 64gph. or faster. The snottier it is the faster we run and the better the ride....Pat

26 knots on a snotty sea trial day in the Gulf on doc's boat.