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Mac vs. Windows

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rickysa
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Rickysa

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45' CONVERTIBLE-Series II (1984 - 1992)
I didn't want to hijack the Computer/GPS thread on the other side, but the Mac/Windows debate sparked an interest and I would like to solicite opinions on going Mac over windows for the home computer.

It would be primarily internet usage and photo managment (eg upload fishing pics to our website), and rather than talk with a salesman, I thought I'd tap the braintrust here....

Thanks,

Rick
 
I started my computer life with a Mac in 1984. A few years later I switched to MS DOS because that's what we were using at work and it was easier to take stuff home and get free programs!

When Win 95 came out and everyone lined up to buy it, my first comment after seeing it at work was, "Wow, windows 95 looks just like a cheap version of Macintosh 84." But I stuck with win.

When I retired last year, I started doing part time work. The company gave me a choice of either a win or mac laptop. I decided to take the Mac since it had been so long - I wanted to see what they were like now.

I liked it so much that a few months later I purchased a new Imac to replace my windows desktop.

I did extensive photo work on both machines as well as a lot of presentations, etc. There is no doubt that there are more programs available for Win. But it doesn't matter at all. For example, let's say there are only 2 nav programs for the Mac and 20 for windows. How many are you going to use - just one.

From a real world standpoint the ONLy place the mac suffers is if you are into a lot of computer gaming. If that is critical, then you want windows since most computer games start life as WIN and may or may not get ported to the Mac sometime later.

Of course with the INTEL macs, you can load windows and run it natively if you wish. If you boot up in Win, your computer IS a windows computer - with all the disadvantages of any win computer - viruses, more crashes, etc. I have Win installed on my Imac and boot up in Win just to run games. I have no other Win programs installed on it. Apple has a program - Bootcamp - that allows you to select whether you want to boot in win or MacOS. You can set it to default to either and, on bootup, overide and switch to the other. There are other non-Apple programs that will allow the machine to hot-switch from one op system to the other. You have to buy/borrow/steal XP or whatever win sys you want, Apple obviously won't supply it. All the major programs are available for the Mac but if you have the Win stuff, you could boot up in Win and run it from there. But I don't see the point. If you want to run win software, get a new win machine.

Almost anything you want to do, the Macs will do it easier. Now that doesn't mean it will seem easier when you are used to Win. I've found that we don't like things that are different, even if they are "easier." Frankly, some things even seemed annoying until I realized it's a better way. Example, if you close your doc(s) in win MS Word, the program also quits. In the Mac, any program stays running until you specifically close it. So you can close all the docs but Word (or whatever) is still running. Why is that good? It means that you can instantly shift from program to program without it having to relaunch. It's really a time saver but the first time it seems annoying - "I closed my doc but Word (or whatever) is still active." Using the dock you can instantly see what programs are active and which are not. You can also instantly switch the same way. It's really handy.

Obviously, you have to start a program for it to open - they don't launch automatically (unless you set them to do so). But once open, they don't close until you tell them - yes, you can TELL it to do so if you wish, the voice recognition capability is very good.

The Mac's Iphoto is an excellent photo program. Google copied a lot of it's features when they developed Picasa - also excellent. But Iphoto is integrated into the mac OS so it's more stable, faster, and easier to work with using other files and programs. Note - Iphoto is NOT an image manipulation program like photoshop although it can do all the basic stuff you would normally do. I never liked photoshop much and used Picture Window for photo work in Windows. I'm trying Apple's Aperture now as a demo and find it to be very good. But frankly I do less serious image manipulation than I used to and am thinking Iphoto does everything I need it to. Overall the Mac integrates a lot of handy stuff into the OS that win machines have to get from add-ons which can cause problems.

I won't get into the issue of style/appearance/elegance of the design. Some people like it, some don't. The interface, however is much more elegant than Win and far less problem-prone. As I said, I used PC's/Win for most of my professional life until April of last year. I would not consider switching back.

I know I sound like a Mac ad - no, I'm not affiliated... ;)

If you want more info/opinion, don't hesitate to ask!
 
Thanks for all the info Mike!

I was in undergrad when the computer thing took off...typing control codes to get bold, italic, etc was a pain....then they got these tiny little computers that had drop down menus and were a blast to work with. I couldn't afford a new computer, but found some really lousy software (GEM was the name of it) that tried to emulate Apples stuff...ever since I've always wanted one.

My son has a Win laptop...will we still be able to use the same wireless internet thingy (can you tell I'm not real computer savvy :o )

My son is a little OCD when it comes to games, so we don't have any...time to go to the Apple store!

Rick
 
AHHH! Wireless! you hit a good point. Yes, the macs all have bluetooth/Airport built in and will identify any wifi networks available.

When we moved down here we didn't have the internet available initially. SO we would go to starbucks and use the wifi to hook up. She took her new win laptop from work; I had the Powerbook G4 Mac. When we got there, we both turned on our machines. The mac was connected in about 10 seconds.

Her laptop SEEMED to hook up - it had a good signal - but couldn't actually connect to the internet. SHe has NO patience with computers at all, despite using them virtually every day of her working life so she almost threw it at me saying, "This stupid f,,,,,,g thing..." I messed with a bunch of settings - half of which I couldn't remember for the life of me, and, after 10 minutes or so got it to hook up. Now, at our house we have wireless as well - The Imac is hard wired to the modem (though it will do wireless as well) and the laptops run wifi...except when her win computer suddenly seems to not understand it all again...

I guess what has impressed me about the Mac is that it just works with little drama.

Re your experience. I had many similar ones - Way back in the mid 80's, when I was using the Mac, the place where I worked got new MS DOS machines to replace dedicated Wang word processors. I got into a huge argument with a computer guy over MS DOS wordperfect/MAC Word. I seriously could not convince him that it was easier to use a computer that if you selected "BOLD" or underlined, or whatever for a font, that the font actually became bold or underlined, not highlighted in some color. He ranted that because word/ms dos allowed you to select WHATEVER color you wanted to represent "bold" (or anything else), it was far superior to the Mac.

People are bizzare sometimes...
 
Hey, Mike -- do you think an Intel Mac can run the Garmin software natively enough to read/write the software updates to their bluechip through the USB reader?

Like you I've been on both sides of the fence at different times in my computer life, and to me hands-down I like the Mac a lot better. I'm currently on Mac (not an Intel one, either) and have been told I probably wouldn't be able do use my card reader with the Mac that I have, and that's the only app/hardware I miss after going back to the Mac.
 
When an Intel mac has windows installed and it is booted up in windows, it IS a windows computer just like a Dell with windows is a windows computer. It runs windows as the native operating system and, as such, doesn't even "know" that it's a Macintosh.

Any program that operates on a PC under windows will operate exactly the same way and same speed. The speed might vary depending on which computer has more memory/processing speed - same as it would on two different "windows" computers.

Some computer geeks argue that that's the best point of the new intel macs - they can run MAC OS, Windows, or Linux natively if you want to do so. It's the only computer that can do that.

I've run some processing-intense Windows (Halo, Prey, etc.) games on the Imac booted in windows. THey run at least as fast or faster than they did on my 3.5G processor in my Windows machine in NY.

So the main point is - a Mac booted in windows IS a windows computer - it is not running some sort of emulator or "re processor" to run the program.
 
Yep.

The new Intel-based Macs are capable of booting either and running either.

However, for the bucks, I still like the PC - ESPECIALLY if you're NOT going to run Windows.

To put a not-too-fine-point on it, a couple of months ago I configured up a dual processor Pentium Core 2 machine with 2GB of memory, midtower case and all the usual "fixings" and spent well under $1,000. You can't TOUCH that pricepoint with a Mac.

So in the end its a matter of what you need and what you're willing to spend. Apple's hardware has always been insular and proprietary. If that's ok, then have at it. For me, its not ok; I like modularity, especially when it comes time to change out something that has broken. Even in the "PC" space this can be a problem - get some DELLs, for example, and that power supply is a $350 part - for something that costs $50 for any "standard" machine.
 
I have a mac laptop, it was nice for a while, but then I loaded Linux on it. I discovered that the 20 gig hard drive is actually a 30 gig. Mac fences off 10 gigs and lets you use 20, I have no idea why, unless it is storing everything you do. Linux is not for the casual user. The OS X operating system used by Apple is Linux based, and is very stable. Windows is the universal thing that everyone uses, but is vulnerable to malicious code. Microsoft is horribly written software, and there is no such thing as security with a windows operating system.

The mac is great and trouble free, the software is expensive, but does some cool things way better than windows stuff. Mac does a good job keeping up with security updates. The OS is really Free BSD. with Apple software running on top.

Windows is the most compatible with all the file types and multimedia on the web. Just get used to the blue screen of death. If you can live with a system that works most of the time, then windows is the cheapest of the two. Windows is a resource hog, requires tons of memory and a large hard drive, the laptops will suck a battery dry in minutes too. If you choose windows make sure you configure automatic updates and have a fat pipe connection to the web to keep it running. You will also need a good antivirus program and spyware detector. I cannot comment on the newest version of windows, but from what I see published in the tech area, the jury is still out on the security issues.

Linux is for people who have time and computer skills, most all the software is free, it is highly stable, but not many commercial offerings are available for additional software yet.

I am using my IBM thinkpad running linux right now.
 
Karl,
You got that right. Price and ease of cracking the case open and adding or changing something out is the beauty of a full or mid tower PC. I just built an almost identical machine to the one you did and I've got just over $600 into it.

And if you want to go really cheap, look at the refurbed and off-lease stuff. You can buy a decent one on IBMs site for $285. At that rate you can throw a few away and still come out ahead.

I will say that Mac does a great job with their operating system. And if you want to go cheap with them, they do have that little mini-Mac. My dad bought one when they came out a couple of years ago and he loves it.

I think this is a debate that will never end.
 
SKYCHENEY said:
I think this is a debate that will never end.

(Not untill I weigh in...at least that's the way always it seems)

I'm certainly no geek, but do you (all) think that Linux OS and Macs (not necessarily used together) are a good choice for prevention of viruses, hackers, and most worrysome, identity theft? (firewalls, antivirus software, spyware all withstanding).
 
I own both Mac and PC. For doing Sound and or Graphics the Mac beats the PC crowd every time! More expensive yes, but a Hatteras is more expensive than a Sea Ray. Buying the Mac labeled Hard drive is aprox. 50% higher. Why you ask ? Well to earn the Apple label they must prove they meet certain standards for longevity and compatibility. Yes the part will last longer eg. metal bearings instead of plastic bushings and it will work on your computer no matter what other programs or hardware are installed. Try getting any PC programer to say that. Why is it that people will spend the money for a Mercedes instead of a Chevrolet, then turn around and buy the cheapest computer they can find ? You get what you pay for, quality just costs more. IMHO
 
(Nobody You Know) said:
(Not untill I weigh in...at least that's the way always it seems)

I'm certainly no geek, but do you (all) think that Linux OS and Macs (not necessarily used together) are a good choice for prevention of viruses, hackers, and most worrysome, identity theft? (firewalls, antivirus software, spyware all withstanding).
There's no question that you'll have perhaps 1/100th the concern about viruses and worms on a Mac that you do on a PC. A LOT fewer security patches to be concerned about than Windows, too.

For some reason the hippie longhair hate-the-corporations-crowd long ago painted a big bullseye on Microsoft and everything they stand for, so those are the systems they target. I don't miss doing security updates and virus checks daily on the old PC.
 
Re viruses, etc. Obviously one reason there are essentially no problems with this in the MAC world might simply be that macs make up a very small fraction of the computers in the world. Therefore, hackers pay less attention to them. I am no expert on this at all but I have read many comparisons where folks run anti virus software and pick up several a day on PCs and run for months on macs and never pick up any - same for spyware. So it may be "less interest" from bad people but it appears that the system is less susceptable in general.

A lot of this may have to do with the program being run. For example, Internet Explorer may simply be more vulnerable than Safari (mac) or Firefox (Win or Mac). I quit using IE a few years ago on my PC, switching to Firefox. On the Macs I use Firefox, mostly because I'm used to it. But Safari works just as well and in fact, I found recently a couple sites that wouldn't open on Firefox did open with Safari.

A lot of test sites say that there is no reason to even run Anti Virus software on a Mac. Of course the Anti-virus software makers don't agree and are probably burning the midnight oil trying to develop some viruses for the Mac to justify their products!

One comment re upgrading/changing components - It's true that the Imac is not easy to "upgrade" except for RAM. It IS possible, and folks have already done it but it's kinda like replacing the battery in an Ipod. It's not for the casual user. However the MAC PRO's are a "tower" configuration and can be accessed just like any other computer tower. They are also much more powerful (and expensive) than the Imacs. I had no need for the increased power which is primarily used for intense graphics and multiple displays. I really like the Imac because the entire computer is in the "monitor". When we unpacked it the Admiral asked, "Nice monitor, where's the computer." I said, This (the monitor) is it!" "How'd they do that?" she asked. "I don't know," I replied.

Sorry again for sounding like a Mac ad. As they say, there's nothing worse than a convert.:o
 
It has to do with the security of the kernal. BSD and linux, also unix are very secure operating systems. Windows is named properly because the whole world can see what is in your computer, just you can't, LOL. Even their new secure OS has been hijacked. When microsuck decides to hire some real computer programmers instead of the hacks they have, maybe they will finally come up with a software that works as advertised. We are still waiting for the advertised "mulit-tasking" software they promised us 25 years ago. Now their so called secure operating system that has been in development for several years gets hijacked during beta testing and is probably the least secure OS to date. If you leave all your windows and doors wide open with curtains up, the keys in the ignition of your car, your wallet and check book on the kitchen table, don't complain if you get robbed. I have a windows laptop just so I can communicate with my technically challenged friends who have to send me something in a windows format that they do not know how to convert, or a website that will only play with a windows format, like some government websites. 99 percent of the problems on the internet are attributed to windows operating systems. If all the servers running the internet were windows servers we would not have an internet. Thank god that microsuck only has a 28 percent share of the server market.
 
Boss Lady said:
It has to do with the security of the kernal. BSD and linux, also unix are very secure operating systems.

As always with so many of these threads and posts I'm getting a free education.

For anyone who is interested here's a link to Wikipedia that sumerises the relationship of Unix, Linux and Mac:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix
 
Whew! There's enough info there to satisfy even the most curious! I had no idea that unix had been around so long. I thought it was a fairly new thing. Just goes to show you...

Of course, with what's been going on with Wikipedia- people changing the docs at their whim to say whatever they want - there's no telling if any of it is true!;)

Sounds good, though.
 
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It all looks pretty accurate to me, I have been playing with computers since 1979, my first computer had 4K of ram, LOL, I never had the patience to pursue programming, I wrote several programs, but I was rock compared to other people, so I moved into networking and hardware.
 

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