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Lithium battery fired at sea

  • Thread starter Thread starter rsmith
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rsmith said:
Looks like the cargo ship of hi end EV’s was a LiPo fire. My son flys cargo and they had a pallet of LiPOS torch up luckily before they were loaded.

http://www.lithiumsafe.com/battery-fire-safety-marine/
Click to expand...

Great post.

I've seen some threads about changing to LiPo, but nothing about how a fire can be contained. Our Halon systems are worthless for this and the fires are brutal. It's going to happen and I dread hearing the details.
 
There has been a number of accidents already starting with tragic dive boat fire on the west coast two years ago.

Two month ago a catamaran went up in smoke at Chub caused by charging a scooter battery. The family that was on board escaped but their dream winter ruined.

Personally I m sticking to conventional batteries for now. We have an eFoil on board, powered by a lithium battery. High quality industrial charger but I only charge it in the ER. Not in a non protected space with flammable materials
 
This Lagoon I’m running has God knows (I forgot) how many lithium batteries and inverters, but it’s impressive how long they can run everything on the boat for extended periods of time.

After reading this, I’m glad my stateroom is aft with easy access to the rafts and dingy.
 
Reminds me of the oxygen generators that took down Value Jet in the Everglades. A fire that once started that cannot be put out. And now batteries that start on fire (that can't be put out) igniting a fiberglass boat (another fire that can't be put out) (practically speaking) that I am on? What's next, magnesium framing? No freaking way. After this story now I'm even more old school. Gimme mechanical engines, mechanical controls, and some good old 8D's.
 
First thing to understand is not all lithium batteries are the same chemistry.

LiFePo will not catch fire and will not burn. Lithium ion is not the same. Use the correct formulation for the job. Some are more power dense but burning down a boat is not worth the weight savings.

I have installed 16 4kw batteries this month. More on order. There is no fire danger. They are all LiFePo and with integrated BMS.
 
Saying there is no danger in LifePo batteries seems like begging for liability. Still, places selling them insist they can't pop or burn.
https://lithiumhub.com/lifepo4-batteries-what-they-are-and-why-theyre-the-best/

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/viewer.html?pdfurl=https%3A%2F%2Frelionbattery.com%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2Fmisc%2FRelion_SafetyLithiumBattery.pdf&clen=269990&chunk=true

Elsewhere, I read about warnings. So, apprehension is understandable before a major investment.
https://www.grepow.com/blog/can-lifepo4-batteries-explode/
 
Boatsb: From a budget perspective, how expensive to convert four 8-Ds? Assume will also need new charger?
 
Call me. They do not work on start banks.

407-739-5450
 
Scott, thanks for pointing out the difference between LifePO4 and Li. I wasn't aware and actually thought they were one in the same and I bet others here may not realize the difference.

Until Lithium-Sulfide becomes a reality - looks like LifePO4 is the way to go if one doesn't mind the initial cost of acquisition.
 
drburke said:
Do your research.

As Scott said, LiPO4 is the safest of the more than half dozen "lithium" chemistries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery

DAN
Click to expand...
I'm sorry my friend, I have to differ a bit here.

Not a lot of confidence in that web lead.
Opens with; Chemistry, performance, cost and safety characteristics vary across types of lithium-ion batteries

The only comment on LiPO4; High safety compared to Cobalt / Manganese systems
Your comment; the safest of the more than half dozen "lithium" chemistries

I have already had enough power tool battery issues NOT Lithium.

If there is a risk of anything past the issues already with a flooded battery, I would consider a higher safety factor to be; Not on board my boat until they are way safer than more than a half dozen other "lithium" chemistries

There are still two ships out there adrift with car fires on board. Maybe 3000 brand new battery cars on Da Ace Including Bentleys? Don't think there would be any cheap batteries in a Bentley.
. No way to put these fires out. VW or Bentley.
There is a hint to be had there.
 
zigzag930 said:
Here is a pretty decent evaluation of the fire risks for varying lithium battery compositions:

https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/TC-16-17.pdf
Click to expand...
Much better reading.

In general, of all of the lithium-ion cells that were tested, LiFePO4 would be considered the safest cathode material because of the relatively low temperature rise and the resulting low likelihood for thermal runaway to propagate. LiCoO2 and LiMnNi would be considered the most hazardous because of the relatively large temperature rise and high probability for propagation of thermal runaway to adjacent battery cells.

Thank you but still a long way off for my personal use.
 
Captain Ralph said:
Much better reading.

Thank you but still a long way off for my personal use.
Click to expand...

One of the great things about the forum is the thoughtful exchange of ideas.

I agree that FLA is proven and safe technology; got several myself! :-)

In contemplation of future upgrades, always good to review pros and cons--thanks all.

DAN
 
I'm very much a lithium ion battery fan. I just recently converted a hunting buggy from lead acid to lipol (Lithium Polymer) using reclaimed cells. Couldn't be happier with the results so far.

Lion is a great technology and has come a long ways in a very short period of time... that being said it's still a technology in it's infancy in terms of global adoption/adaptation.

The fires, although very rare, are quite an issue due to the fact that they are basically in-extinguishable.

I do feel that these batteries (some of them at least) belong on 'certain' boats, but I'm really leaning against them in our boats. That being said, I have about 10-15 Lion batteries on my boat at any given time. And I'd bet most of the people on this board also have lion batteries in various places about their boat.

Here is a list of lion batteries I know for a fact are on my boat right now.
Milwaukee m12 drill/driver/scraper/light
Multiple rechargeable light headsets
Wireless coms headsets (think I got 8 batteries?)
Ipad and android tablets
Epirb & plb's (each have one battery)

So, my battery count is probably closer to 20+ lion batteries on the boat.

So, while we are all quick to swear off lions for our boats, let's be honest, we all have some laying around. Most of the fires are caused by small battery packs, not onboard lion operating batteries, which generally have more robust failover systems in place.

I'm not saying putting banks of lions on your boat is a good idea, I researched it and chose NOT to do it on my boat. But everyone here swearing off lions needs to take a look around the boat. If you really feel that strongly about their safety risk you prolly need to get all of them off your boat.
 
Last edited:
Great reminder, and true. Thanks-
 
Pascal said:
Another close call. Container burned up on the way to port

https://gcaptain.com/container-lithium-battery-fire/
Click to expand...

That's insane to throw batteries with varying state of charge in a pile like that. Things WILL be touching. And that has nothing to do with what chemistry they are. And yes, a lot of those batteries are still live.

For giggles I did an autopsy on a battery pack for a medical device. I THOUGHT I had the series?parallel thing figured out, but the sparking and smoke at the tip of my cutters told me different. No harm done, but under the right (wrong) circumstances a prolonged short like that would easily start a fire.

Ended up with a nice supply of perfectly good 18650's for in flashlights etc. It was 4 bad ones that took the whole pack down.
 

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I think they were packed but the packing material burned up
 
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