Liens and Auctions

[John Dickson]

I am currently contesting a yard repair bill due to overbilling and incorrect repairs being completed. I am now in a potential lien situation that could result in an auction. Does anyone know how to handle this situation or where I can get information on how to hold off an auction while contesting my yard repair bill?

 

[Boss Lady]

If this has deteriorated and you cannot talk to them any longer then they have probably put a mechanic's lien on the boat. Every state is different on how this is handled. I would strongly suggest you retain counsel immediately and get some proactive steps taken, or else they will wind up winning and you will have to pay to get your boat back plus storage fees. Gather all the paperwork you can, estimates, invoices, etc and find the most aggresive attorney you can find, and just remember you get what you pay for, find either a very experienced older one or a brilliant young one. Good luck!

 

[Genesis]

Seconded - get competent counsel involved now.

 

[Capt K]

Be careful! MARITIME law now applies and the rules are all different. The attorney MUST be familiar with this. Believe me, I've been there and it was not even my own disputed debt, but the previous owner's!

You would be surprised at how things differ from what you would think. Your "rights" are severly limited compared to land-based disputes.

Good luck!

Capt K

 

[SeaEric]

AGREED to all above. Maritime law is a whole different ball game. You must have a firm and an attorney skilled in this field. Don't delay.

 

[jim rosenthal]

You need an attorney experienced in maritime law. Also, if your boat is federally documented that may have a bearing on it. Good luck with this. It sounds like a mess.

Maritime law is sometimes also called 'admiralty law', if I am not mistaken.

 

[Chapeaux!]

I am currently contesting a yard repair bill due to overbilling and incorrect repairs being completed. I am now in a potential lien situation that could result in an auction. Does anyone know how to handle this situation or where I can get information on how to hold off an auction while contesting my yard repair bill?

The only "Food for thought" I would add to the previous posts is that:

1. It is generally wisest to diligently try to resolve it by negotiation, if there is any possibility...most likely the least costly alternative.

2. If it has gone beyond the point where you are certain that you can no longer talk with the principals, consider engaging the services of an attorney specializing in maritime law with the intent that he negotiate first, litigate later. Some of the concepts related to the area where you are going are not logical and do not necessarily follow conventional wisdom....that is, what you or I would think logical. I'm not certain if it will apply, but you may want to discuss a TRO with the attorney, if there appears to be danger of a siezure. It sounds as if the value of this dispute is significant. Maritime attorneys are pricey, but if the value of the dispute is great, you will most likely see a return on you investment at the time the issue is resolved. It sounds as if it has gotten to the point that time is critical.

If the issue goes to the courts, you have little ability to predict the outcome. Attorneys generally tell you that you have a great case going in, but in my experience, somehow the future dims progressively as things unfold. Remember, the other guys are getting similar advice from their competent counsel and probably have been down this road before. Unfortunately, the best odds you can hope for are 50/50 at trial.

In my opinion, this is at least an assesment of some of the elements of the problem.

Try this link:

http://www.lawinfo.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/Client.lawarea/categoryid/78


And......Good Luck!

 

[(Nobody You Know)]

it's worth noting that amoung overcharging for poor workmanship (and sometimes down right dishonesty) you are always in a jam when time to splash the boat. Don't like the work? Don't agree with the bill? Boat stays on the hill till you pay (or an agreement is reached - which is virtually the same as "you pay").

Wherever you boat the combined recomendations by several marine surveyors usually will points you in the direction of the right yard(s), and away from the ones you want to avoid.

I am very sorry to learn about any boater in this situation. Good luck.

 

[Starman]

I agree with everyone here about not waisting time and obtaining the specialized counsel.

One other alternative, pay the bill, and get your boat.

Then sue them in court.

As a former law enforcement officer and having been witness to and a part of several type trials , including some in federal court, I can tell you that the person with the best documentation usually is the winner.

document everything regarldless of how silly or insignificant it may seem at the time.

Good Luck

 

[captddis]

I may be wrong but some years ago I had a cust who had a very large balance due on the completion of his overhauls. I never had any problems in the past, but I felt he was being evasive .
I talked to a lawyer friend who called a maritime lawyer he knew.
Basically he told me that the boat could not be easily arrested and my recourse would be sueing him for the balance in court. Fortuately when presented with the final invoice he wrote the check in full.
It has always been my understanding that mechanics lien laws do not apply to boats and legally the boat can't be held hostage. A prefferred mortgage is different.Also while I usually deal with all my people on a word and handshake, to prevail in court there needs to be a signed workorder and approval for extras.
If this is not true I would love to know what the law is.
Good Luck,
Dave

 

[67hat34c]

we had a similar problem over the summer, we were between a rock and a hard place, decided to just pay and get the H out of there. I would like to sue the guy but in the end the time and effort and expense of experts etc would prove to be another expense with doubtful recovery results.

 

[SeaEric]

A yard near me in Maryland tried to keep a guy's boat until he paid the bill. The boatowner came to the yard with the Sheriff who directed the yard to launch the man's boat. An unpaid bill is a civil matter. The man's boat is his property and to keep him from it is like stealing it, which is a criminal matter. This may be different in other states, but thats what happened here.

 

[Boatsb]

Would this be differant between documented and state registered vessels?

 

[Walter P]

Recently I had my boat hauled and I asked the yard to pump the holding tank. Actually I was going to do it myself but the said "don't worry, we'll take care of it". Well they certainly did - the bill for pumping the holding tank was $100.00 (not mispelled). When I questioned this outragious charge, they said well we had to pour in a few gallons of water and re-pump the rinse water. It took no more than 15 min to do the entire job and proceed with the haul out. I was annoyed with them but I was angry with myself for letting them get me like that, especiallly since I could very easily have done it myself. I paid the bill and promised myself - never again

The above is but one small example of how boaters get ripped off with little or no recourse afterward. My advice is pay the bill, sue later if the amount is worthwhile and under no circumstances should you have work performed at that facility again without a written agreed price...

Remember that the marine service industry is probably the last example of legal piracy. The honest guys unfortunately suffer because of their cohorts bad business practices gives a black eye to everyone. Then we wonder why so many people finally say it's not worth it and take up golf or restore old cars.

Walt P

 

[SeaEric]

These days it seems more than ever-Owning a boat yard is a license to steal. And as the number of yards decrease, it shall only get worse. This type of situation does not bode well for our industry going forward. We lose customers every season to RV's, golf, whatever. I guess I live in the wrong millenium.

 

[Genesis]

A big part of why I sold Gigabite was that the last yard that I liked working with went condo. Or so they intended.

The yard was ripped down and leveled, then the bottom fell out of the condo market. To this day it stands as bare land.

There is talk around here among the fisherman's coop members of building a DIY yard up the Freeport Ship Channel. IF that happens then it'd be great - and would likely be the difference that would make it worth owning a big boat again (at least for me.)

The charter guys don't like getting bent over any more than we do.

 

[Buccaneer]

I am currently contesting a yard repair bill due to overbilling and incorrect repairs being completed. I am now in a potential lien situation that could result in an auction. Does anyone know how to handle this situation or where I can get information on how to hold off an auction while contesting my yard repair bill?

"I am currently contesting" (Nov ? 2006) generally means that the time for "negotiation" has past. Bummer. But "negotiation" never really is gone. So, if you can still do it --- pay the bill -- get the boat back in YOUR slip.

"I'm in a potential lien situation" is like being "a little pregnant" you either are or your aren't. Frankly, anytime a boat goes to the yard, it is ALREADY in a "potential" lien situation; so the statement is ambiguous.

How to handle it?

Pay the Yard, get the boat back; that keeps your options open.

If you're already in a pissing contest, the yard may release the boat - even with a full payment -- only upon your execution of a release of claims. That's a BAD thing.

What you want (I think) is to pay them, reserving your right to "sue the sons a bitches" later.

Now, once you have the boat, back at YOUR slip, and you've had your glass of Rum, or Gin or whatever; then call the Admiralty lawyer. Tell him your story. Pay the consultation fee. Show him EVERY document (even the ones that you think don't matter - they generally do).

Then, wait till you get a legal budget; it WILL be MORE than the amount in dispute -- Yes even WITH yard fees being what they are.

You'll have a business decision... pay the legal fee retainer and jump into a lawsuit (which you may be able to mediate, arbitrate or litigate) OR decide that it's less expensive to have paid the yard -- Yes even WITH yard fees being what they are.

Principals = Pr$nc$pal$ are expen$ive.

Yes, I am a land shark. No, I don't "do" Admiralty. YES you should talk to a GOOD one first. How do you select? Call yacht brokers of repute. Ask them who the meanest son of a bitch they know is - and if they could afford him, would they hire him. Then YOU go hire him. For a consultation. You'll not want to pay for it, but do so. If he talks you out of the claim (anything under $60k I tell my clients isn't worth the cost of litigating; but then, I'm a Real Estate laywer and we all know dirt is more expendive than water, right?) he did you a favor. Or not. You'll decide.

Then there is always small claims court. For nothing more than annoyance value, go there. It'll piss off the yard, has small risk to you, is street-justice (so have a good story), and you might get away from Admiralty law, and be able to schmooze the volunteer-atty-temporary-judge with a pure "contract" theory case. Last I knew, the limits were $7,500 for an individual.

Then again, for a fee, I might be able to go to law school in your State, pass that bar (the only one I'd have passed in a LONG time, most I stop and have a drink (Gin), at least), sue the sons-a-bitches, and, well, maybe gone fishing too. Or not.

I don't mean to belittle the issue. Getting stuck by a yard - or by anybody for that matter, sucks. The "legal system" does work, not always perfefctly, but it DOES work. If your position is "stand up" - then, by all means, STAND UP.

But I always tell people (ALWAYS, my staff hates it), the three worst things that can happen to a person are to: 1) get diagnosed with cancer, 2) get involved in a lawsuit or 3) buy a boat.

You know where I stand (no cancer, yet).

Good luck.
Think HARD about it.
Go get the bastards.