Laptops for Navigation?

[REBrueckner]

When I added GPS electronics around 1999 and 2000 I decided to go with dedicated marine units, Raymarine, Standard Horizon and Interphase...None is ideal, but all are satisfactory....Two are for navigation and backup, a little Standard Horizon provides anchor alarm function alongside my bunk... All use CMAP NT+ cartridges....One thing I learned is that a 10 inch screen is GREAT...bigger is better... and whoever designed the boat position to move from screen center to top...then repeat is an IDIOT...you can't see AHEAD...but have plenty of screen viewing your backside (wake)!!! All three do the same thing instead of moving from screen bottom to mid screen...
Anyway, I'm interested in hearing from those who navigate with laptops or desktops...and some of the pros and cons of various set ups. Are new navigation programs able to select boat position on the bottom half of the display screen??
I hear Captn (is it Navigator) is darn good.
At the time I refitted, PC's scared me for several relability reasons...mainly the physical risk of a rotating hard disc failure and the uncertainty of buttons actually performing the function indicated as well as dependency on an an inverter....even today at home sometimes when I hit "delete", to pick an example, nothing happens and I have to repeat to actually get the delete.
The dedicated marine units never have omitted an entry....

 

[SKYCHENEY]

When I bought my boat it had an old Garmin chartplotter on it with a small screen. As a temporary fix, I bought the MapTech software for my laptop thinking that it would work fine for the first season while I searched for a replacement chartplotter. That was 5 years ago and I still keep using the MapTech. I really like the fact that it plots on the "paper" NOAA charts and that you can configure it any way that you like. If I want the boat to remain in the center of the screen, I can do it. If I want North to always be up, I can do it. If I want to split screen with aerial photos on one side, I can do that too. It's highly customizable and cheap.

My dock neighbor just bought the same package. He has Nobletech and just wanted something easier to use. After looking at mine, he decided to order it. It's also fun to pull up charts at home and plan routes with it.

 

[Brian Degulis]

IMHO Nothing beats a PC if you have the space I have Maptech and Nobeltec VNS both are good I think the Nobeltec is better it's just easier to use and does more. Since I'm not real computer savy I don't use the nav computer for anything else and never put it on the net. I have no crashes or problems I have a 21" screen and the whole set up is like navigation for idiots just perfect.

Brian

 

[Pascal]

even in a lower helm I find desktops or notebook hard to read... I tried and i still use my laptop as a back up but glare is a real problem in the middle of a sunny day.

I hate NT+ chips... I used them (4 year old) in a pair of large Furunos and they are awful. Maybe the new ones are better but for instance, they show all lit navaids in one color whther they're red or green. Also, to see the navaid nr you have to get to the object properties, incl moving the trackball and centering the cursor exactly where it need to be. I hate them ! Imagine tyring to get in a narrow unknown channel at night and you have to fumble the damn thing to find the nav aid color and number? I tried... it doens't work, I was glad to have my laptop... and at night i could read the screen.

on the other hand, I find Garmin blue charts very easy to use. they look like real charts...

as a back up, I run either the free Maptech or Seaclear II on my laptop. Maptech doesn't work with my little delorme USB gps but Seaclear II does. Seaclear II is free although the interface is clumsy.

so for me, as a primary Nav tool, a 10" garmin is the best.

Teh one thing that may work, instead of an expensive monitor, would be an LCD TV with computer input. I have one in the galley that I use as a computer monitor sometimes. I've neve tried it at the helm butg it's fine in the galley. pretty cheap too..

 

[Brian Degulis]

When I set mine up I found that some LCD monitors are much better in daylight than others. I don't have a clue why it wasn't a situation were the more expensive was better it just seems some are better than others. On my lower helm in daylight the PC is easier to see than the Furuno Nav Net. I have a second monitor for the PC on the bridge and that's hard to see in daylight.

Brian

 

[bobk]

I have both a color Garmin 2010 (I think) as well as Nobeltec VNS. Each has its pro's and cons. I'm running VNS on an old Toshiba lap top on the bridge. I have a hood on it to reduce glare, but yes that is an issue. If I wasn't so cheap, I'd put the Toshiba downstairs and remote mount a sunlight readable monitor on the bridge and use the IR mouse for control.

Pros for the Nobeltec... it looks like a chart, it is very easy to use, especially plotting courses etc. You can orient it course up, natural chart orientation, north up etc. Blow it up or shrink it with the press of the + or - key. But nav marks are a bit hard to read. However, I would not be without it.! We have seven rounds trips from Baltimore to Marathon under our belt with it. But watch out for Nobeltec, they are pulling Garmin type stuff where they push you into using their charts as opposed to the free ones.

The big Garmin is easy to read and my wife prefers it, but it is a pain to lay out a long course, like a 100 mile run. Also it selects the chart you see, not you. That's a b***h when you are lazily following the magenta ICW line and it dissapears because the next chart Garmin selects is not an ICW chart. If the Garmin were your only tool, you would have a few moments of stress until you figure out what's happening.

If I could only have one nav tool, it would be the Toshiba/Nobeltec combo. The newer ones are brighter than the old 2002 version I'm using, but the thing has never failed me and it is often on 24 hours a day during the cruising time. I'd also try to pick up an older version of the Nobeltec to avoid the chart restriction on newer ones.

Bob

 

[REBrueckner]

My equipment, I forgot to mention is black and white ( A 10" color plotter back then was $5,000 !!!!!!!! and the B&W about $3,000, so I stumbled across a Raymarine 10" just as they were being discontinued and were available on EBAY...they now sell for about $150 there used). My NT and NT+ navaids show as different shapes for different colors so I never noticed the problem Pascal mentions...I avoided Garmin because I did not want a totally proprietary system; I wanted to be able to pick and choose hardware and software from a manufacturer of my choice.

On preparation for my first trip to Nova Scotia, an entry canal in Bra D'Or lake (up north) was MISSING from C-map....I KNEW it was there because I saw in on a Canadian Hydrographics paper chart....I e-mailed CMAP and after I got to their quality control guy,after some lousy responses intially which I blew out of the water, he admitted their error, and signed me up for a new replacement cartridge when it was corrected...took almost two years but I got it!!!! NT was also reportedly POOR intially for the Bahamas in the late '90's; now is supposedly up to date...
I've spoken with other dedicated chart plotter owners and they also mention their boat location is restricted to the upper part of the plotter display...but haven't discussed new units which may do better....

 

[MikeP]

That's one huge advantage that the computer nav programs have - they can download the most current raster and digital charts directly from the NOAA site - no fooling around with some proprietary cr@p from Garmin et al.

 

[Brian Degulis]

The older Nobeltec (I forget the version I have) can use the free charts in Raster only. The newer versions or upgraded older versions can use the free Vector charts. I use the Nobeltec charts In FL cause I set it up before the free charts were available and they are a little easier to use. To set up today Nobeltec is around $500 for the program Maptech around $100 and charts are free. If your not computer savy (like me) then for $50 you can buy the entire US and Bahamas on a CD and use it with any program you choose.

So if your starting from scratch for under $1000 you can do PC with the reciever antena program and 17" LCD monitor!!! Not bad don't you just love China?

Brian

 

[ThirdHatt]

That's one huge advantage that the computer nav programs have - they can download the most current raster and digital charts directly from the NOAA site - no fooling around with some proprietary cr@p from Garmin et al.

Good point Mike, but the problem is NOAA does not update the charts but every few decades! A $200 chip gets you as current as anyone else for many years.

 

[Nonchalant1]

Good point Mike, but the problem is NOAA does not update the charts but every few decades! A $200 chip gets you as current as anyone else for many years.

It is my understanding that the NOAA on-line are the most versions. Some charts have not been updated for many years because they are not updated anywhere. I believe Garmin, C-Map and others just get their charts from NOAA. If you search the charts in a real, paper, up-to-date chartbook, you'll find old dates too, for the same reason. I have downloaded charts for my laptop that were more recent than the 6 month old C-Map chips in my chartplotters.

That being said, I like the Standard Horizon CP1000, 10 in chartplotter with TFT LCD screen because it's many times better than my laptop in bright or direct sunlight. The key is TFT LCDs. I also like that it's permanently affixed in the helm and waterproof. I have the Captain software n my laptop but the hard wired functions in the chartplotter are much easier to use. I have the identical chartplotter on my bridge and the lower helm so I only need one set of chips. If you're moving up or down, just take the chip with you. You don't even have to reboot the GPS, just plug the chip in.

Doug

 

[BUSTER]

Before I got my E-120 Raymarine system,I used a Panasonic toughbook,loaded with Chartview Pro navigation software.It was wired to a Raytheon 525 GPS/chartplotter and performed flawlessly for many years.It was a little difficult to view on the bridge and I needed to adjust the viewing angle to see it well from time to time,but it was very reliable.

The E-120 does everything and more than I can use,I really like it.

 

[thoward]

I have the Maptec on a laptop and use it to plan trips but I like my Garmin 2010 for daily navigation.

 

[34Hatt]

I use the Capt for 7 years now. I have a small desk top under the couch 15" lcd on the bridge it is in a box set back about 12" box is flat black so it does not see the sun. I also can bring it up on the tv in the salon for planning trips. I had one hard drive crash years ago in the gut on a nasty day. After that I put some foam under the desktop and never had a problem since and have been in worst seas. I also have it on my laptop so I always have a backup system. I keep it also here a work so I always can get reference and distance at a click of the mouse

 

[DeeRow]

The free NOAA charts do not include detailed information for the Bahamas. I'm told that the best detail is on Explorer Charts. From http://www.explorercharts.com/ ,
"Explorer Chartbooks are the standard of cruising guides for the Bahamas with data available for C-Map's Max and NT+, Garmin's BlueChart 6.0, and Nobeltec's Passport Deluxe."

My boat has a Garmin system with preloaded charts for the US (free NOAA charts) and a BlueChart chip for the Bahamas and a Furuno system with C-Map Max chip for Florida and the Bahamas. C-Map has a "club" which costs $90/year that includes a chip update.

I prefer Garmin's chart presentation. A Furuno radar was on the boat when I bought it. I added a Furuno NavNet Vx2 display because I could use the old radar antenna with the new display and it added C-map charts to the system.

I considered a laptop, but I need a system that is weather proof and sunlight readable. At the time that I bought my systems, PC systems that are weather and sunlight readable were more expensive than dedicated nav systems. Additionally, I have worked in the computer industry for 20+ years and Windoze based systems are not reliable enough for navigation. I create routes and waypoints on PC based software and transfer them to the nav units.

If I had a laptop for navigation, I would have a marine GPS as a back-up.

Mark

 

[OldLimey]

The main issue with most laptops on boats seems to be about the screen brightness. I went into this recently and eventually bought a Dell Latitude ATG. This has a much brighter display (500 NITS I think) than most 'standard' laptops although not as bright as true sunlight viewable displays at around 2000 NITS. The Dell is easy to use in the salon in bright sunshine although I have not tried it on the flybridge yet. It has a 15 inch screen that makes chart work very easy. I use it with a cheap but good Aussie programme called Software on Board (SOB). This uses CMap charts and seems to do just about everything including AIS and weather - support is also very good as you deal directly with the guys that wrote it.

The other good thing about the Dell model is that it is fairly rugged - again not as good as fully ruggedised units but it's a hell of a lot cheaper.

Just my 2-pence worth from the UK.

 

[OldLimey]

A quick PS - The Dell Latitude ATG is also available with Windows XP, I wouldn't touch Vista with the proverbial barge pole but XP is now reasonably stable so not too bad for back-up navigation.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

We use a Compac laptop with Nobletech software,(older version), and love it. The computer has the bright screen and I bought it new on E-Bay last year for $575.00 When you look for a laptop find the ones that have a shiny screen when they are off. The shiny screens are the correct ones for extra brightness. Ours is pretty easy to see in sunlight and the free NOAA charts are great. I can go seamless from Michigan's upper peninsula at the Straights of Mackinac to the bottom of Florida, and up to Tampa. We use the same computer on our racing sailboat, but keep it below at the nav station. Works great.

 

[Karl]

Has anyone connected their auto pilot to laptop navigation software and let it steer the boat? I believe the Nobeltec VNS can do it, not sure who else.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Maptech will do it, but I have never hooked that part up. I don't like letting a GPS or computer steer. I'll set the course and I'll change the course, no one else.