Is A Motorsailor Still A Blowboat?

[Freebird]

After checking out "Ocean Motion" (a 70MY) with Pat Bustle in Lauderdale last week, I've got a real bad itch for leaving a big boat in FL for a liveaboard. I'm even considering relocating there permanently. Somebody mentioned a Hatteras motorsailor for sale, and I looked at it on YachtWorld. Looks like an awful lot of money for a fairly small (interior) boat. A great pedigree and twin engines seem to be the only things she has going for her. Seeing as how there were only 3 built, I'm not sure how you could determine fair market value for such an item. I guess you'd either want it badly enough to pay around $600k, or you wouldn't.

It would seem to me that a motorsailor would be the perfect boat if you had unlimited time to get where you were going, and wanted a lot of space once you got there. My sailing experience is limited to say the least, but I figure I could run the diesel(s) whenever the wind wasn't blowing my way. That way I could still stand up straight, and I wouldn't have to nail all the furniture down. Otherwise, a good tail wind would give you a free ride for as long as it lasted.

Just the idea of knowing you had a boat with unlimited range would have to be pretty cool. Getting 3mpg under power would be a plus too! That same type of feeling is what always kept me away from houseboats on the river. Sure, dollar for dollar, they offered a lot more space than a comparable length cruiser. But they are still mobile homes mounted on big john boats that can't handle a 3 foot chop, and despite being pretty on the inside, they are butt ugly on the outside. The river leads to the Gulf, and I knew I'd head that way some day.

So what do you think? If I run the engine(s) most of the time along with a generator and AC, and bathe at least 3 times a week, will die-hard motoryachters still associate with me?

 

[Genesis]

Well, here's the deal.

Motorsailing boats, in general, do neither well. The compromises necessary for a motorsailer usually leave you with a boat that sails like a pig, and is really 90% motorboat. If you want to sail, then get a sailboat.

The problem with sailboats in general is that when you remove the big fuel tanks required for full-time propulsion engine use you run into a problem with house loads and generator requirements. 1gph isn't anything important when you're burning anywhere from 10-50+ motoring but when you're sailing and carry 50 gallons of fuel TOTAL 1gph runs out in 2 days! Oh, you said you wanted air conditioning? One of the problems with most "sailing boats" is that they don't carry enough fuel to have the kind of creature comforts we powerboaters expect (that is, to run a genset a good part of the time!)

A good sailboat is NOT at its fastest running with the wind, and is actually quite dangerous if running directly downwind. The fastest the boat can possibly move in that case is at the wind's speed, and that's horribly optimistic. The other problem is that there's very little directional stability (surprisingly) and you can get an unintended jibe, which is real bad news - people go overboard that way, things get broken, etc. Even worse, its possible to get a nasty oscillation going which can cause a broach to windward and promote a "crash-jybe" putting the boom into the water, which is an incredibly violent thing that usually dismasts the boat and can kill or severely injure crew. Short answer - don't run off straight downwind if you can help it.

A "reach" (that is, with the wind more-or-less coming across one of the beams of the boat) is the most efficient point of sail. A beam or broad reach, with the wind straight on the beam to somewhat abaft it, is the most efficient.

More than 'ya wanted to know, right?

I'd be real interested in the Hatt's actual sailing performance on a broad reach in 10-15kts of wind - pretty common conditions out on the open water. I bet she doesn't make more than 5-6kts, which by modern standards is pretty awful, and would lead you to light the diesels more often than you otherwise might. 2 20kw gensets on board (!) would certainly not lead to a lack of power, and she's sporting 5 AC compressors (!) which is certainly going to lead to a LOT of capacity there. Then again figure 2gph to run the AC units under way, which you have to budget against your fuel burn.... 4-71s at 115hp with freewheel gears (which they specifiy as being on the boat) will likely outlast you, but they're going to be loud and nasty - for that sort of money why not put in a couple of modern low-output N/A diesels and make her more hospitable? You ain't gonna get 3nmpg out of this boat with the house loads up - figure between 1 and 1.5nmpg at 8-9 kts, which isn't much better than the big convertables or MYs when running at displacement speeds under power! However - you CAN shut them down and sail, burning fuel only for the genset(s).....

She's unstabilized which is expected for a sailboat (when under sail there'd be no need for stabs) and you might find yourself "sailing" (that is, sails up but propulsion running) more for stability than anything else.

The other thing is that she's got an 80'+ stick. Any fixed bridge is going to be bigtime trouble.

 

[luckydave215]

Bathing 3 times a week (at last)

Freebird, will your power boating friends associate with you if you buy a motorsailor and bathe three times a week? (more than now, no doubt )
Your question reminds me of an old joke. "Oh, doc, will I ever play the violin?"

 

[Freebird]

More than 'ya wanted to know, right?

Yep! A simple "have you lost your frikken mind?" would have been sufficient!

 

[Freebird]

Re: Bathing 3 times a week (at last)

Freebird, will your power boating friends associate with you if you buy a motorsailor and bathe three times a week? (more than now, no doubt )
Your question reminds me of an old joke. "Oh, doc, will I ever play the violin?"

I'm not quite sure how to take that remark "more than now, no doubt". Are you implying that I am lacking in power boating friends, personal hygene, or a combination of the two?

To clear the air, so to speak, I take a bath every Friday night whether I need it or not!

 

[Paul45c]

Yep! A simple "have you lost your frikken mind?" would have been sufficient!

Y'know, I tried to save old FreeThinker from this kind of public infamy via the private message route, but he just needed to air his shame out here. Go figure!

How does a true-blue redneck boy go from wanting to cash in the 58TC on a true beautiful classic like the 70MY and then let his mind wander into a BLOWBOAT??!! Somebody save him!

 

[ThirdHatt]

How does a true-blue redneck boy go from wanting to cash in the 58TC on a true beautiful classic like the 70MY and then let his mind wander into a BLOWBOAT??!! Somebody save him!

Key words above: "mind wander"!

 

[luckydave215]

Sailing is great fun and a challenge to do well. (racing is a blast) Sailing a motorsailor well isn't a challenge, it's impossible, they sail like barges.

 

[CARL GUZMAN]

Freebird
What I think you need is to get that boat of yours going for Columbus Day so you can get that freebird feeling of yours out on the deep blue
don't forget to throw out a ballyhoo

 

[Pascal]

my sailing experience is limited to crewing with friends on anythign from a 30' Beneteau to a maxi but it's also been my understanding that most motorsailers dont do either task well. they are the ultimate compromise where everything is compromised.

that said, the hatt is probably one of the best....

I must say that sailing does appeal to me and may eventually be in my future a few years from now... who knows... at this point, it woudln't work because of draft issues in shallow south florida and actual living space.

just like running a MY at hull speed, or a trawler, getting there under sail is part of the fun so if you're only making 6kts, so what ?

 

[Freebird]

Hey, I'm glad to see so many of you concerned about my well being. I've thought about it and have come to the conclusion that the 70MY will be my primary point of focus. Hell, if fuel goes to $5 per gallon I can always tie some bed sheets together and run them up the formidable mast on the bridge. Besides, I only speak English, so going around the world might get a little lonely for this old southern boy. I figure I can hang out in the Keys, Bahamas, and Abacos and be happy.

You gotta admit though, the idea of pointing your bow towards the great blue yonder and knowing you could make it to the other side has a lot of appeal. I'd just throw away all my electronics except the compass to keep in a straight line and just see where I ended up. Like Captain Ron said, if I got lost, I could always pull in someplace and ask directions.

You guys do realize this may have been your best chance to get me off this forum. If ya'll had nothing but positive things to say about a motorsailor, I may have bought one and left for good. Meanwhile, please forgive me for the motorsailor brain fart. If I get tired of Florida, I couldn't take one of those back to Tennessee anyhow, and you probably couldn't give one of those things away if you needed to dump it in a hurry!

 

[ThirdHatt]

BLOWBOATS RULE!!!!!!! GO RANDY!!!!!!!

Just joking, but if you're serious about the feel of "pointing your bow towards the great blue yonder and knowing you could make it to the other side", you only need to find yourself a nice Hatteras 58LRC. Those boats are the best of both worlds because they provide trans-atlantic range with all the luxury and amenities that we powerboat guys have come accustomed to. Food for thought!

 

[labrador]

Just heard that a blowboat (Blue Yankee) a 68 footer did the Vinyard race in that tropical storm we had over labor day. Came back to Stamford Conn.from the Vinyard tower after leaving Block Island to starboard in less than 6 hours. Thats 125 miles averaging over 20kts. Wind gusts were over 60kts and they had a storm jib with a reefed main. Downwind hit a high speed of 29.8kts. Brand new boat with no comforts however thats cookin. 2 yrs ago their old boat during the block island race, bowman went out on the pole to change chutes when the carbon pole exploded. Bowman went into the water unconsious with no harness or pfd on. I'm not sure if they ever found the body. Yes it can be dangerous and no motorsailers don't do either well however I'll teach you how to sail Randy if you're interested. Just bring it to where I am and I'll ever buy the beer!

 

[Freebird]

I'll teach you how to sail Randy if you're interested. Just bring it to where I am and I'll ever buy the beer!

Free sailing lessons and free beer? I'll be there! I've still got a 14' AquaFinn that I can load up in my pick up and come to New Bern. You down there yet?

I reckon I've talked myself out of a motorsailor, but I saw one that might make a neat "toy" though. Ever see a MacGregor 65 Pilothouse? Man those things sure are pretty, and fast too! They claim an 11 knot cruise in a 15 knot wind, and a 10.8 knot cruise under power at under 3gph! They even mention 25 knots in a "strong" wind, YEE HAA!!! HOLD ON MAMMA, WE'RE COMIN' ABOUT!!!

I'm not sure I could handle one as a liveaboard though seeing as how it only has a 12' beam (and that's in the middle). There's one for sail in Washington for $219k that has gen and ac, and another in south FL for around 150K. Who knows, maybe I'll go check on that one down south if I can't bring the owner of that 70MY over to my way of thinking. For that kind of money I could keep my 58 and have a motorized blow boat too! Reckon I'd get snickered at if I drug it behind my 58?

 

[labrador]

Yea moved in to the house 3 weeks ago however now I'm up and down the coast like a yoyo until my plant gets moved late Oct. or early Nov. Leaving on the 27th with the Hat to go thru the Chesapeake then into the ditch up to New Bern. Sure is purty there. Right now livin on the boat which is real nice. Wife is havin a great time down there without me spendin money like she's had too many Mount Gay's. This move better be worth it as I'll have to make more money to replace what she's goin thru.

 

[Freebird]

Yea moved in to the house 3 weeks ago however now I'm up and down the coast like a yoyo until my plant gets moved late Oct. or early Nov. Leaving on the 27th with the Hat to go thru the Chesapeake then into the ditch up to New Bern. Sure is purty there. Right now livin on the boat which is real nice. Wife is havin a great time down there without me spendin money like she's had too many Mount Gay's. This move better be worth it as I'll have to make more money to replace what she's goin thru.

Damn Bubba, I wish my wife would take up drinking! We'd both be better off! I've always loved drunk women, as many as I could before I messed up and got myself married. I'll take drinking over bitching any day!

 

[jim rosenthal]

Randy, we don't want you to leave. Really. Even if you're thinking about buying a sailboat. However, if you're going to buy a sailboat, you should buy a real sailboat- not a boat that they only made three of. For what they are asking, you could buy a Swan or a Hinckley, which someone else would want after you are done with it. And those are REAL sailboats. Like, they cross oceans and win races doing it.

As much as I esteem Hatteras yachts, I don't think the motorsailer was one of their high points (no pun intended). Although the period reviews were favorable, I don't know how they would be regarded by today's standards.

Now, "Ocean Motion"- someone from the forum SHOULD buy that. That's a beautiful boat. Buy that, Randy, and we'll all come stay with you. The boat's so big you wouldn't notice us except when you saw that the beer had run out.

 

[labrador]

Dr. Jim, got any place on the Chesapeake you recommend staying at besides Annapolis (I heard the shows will be in town around the end of the month and everything will be taken). I'll either make Atlantic City or Cape may the 1st day then thru the c&d into the chesapeake. Figure its around 70 miles from Cape may into the Chesapeake.Giving myself 2 days to get to Norfolk. Got any suggestiond north of Annapolis and halfway down?

 

[Freebird]

Now, "Ocean Motion"- someone from the forum SHOULD buy that. That's a beautiful boat. Buy that, Randy, and we'll all come stay with you.

Hey Sensors,

Doc is making threats towards me!!! Better zap him before things turn ugly!!!

 

[Freebird]

Hey Doc,

I just noticed you've promoted yourself to "super" moderator. Reminds me of a joke where a hooker knocked on the door of an old gent and told him she was there to offer him super sex. He replied "If it's all the same to you, I'll have the soup".