Inverter install

[oscarvan]

Eventually the SB side will convert to 24V, and as components need replacing they will be moved from 32V to 24V (The phased in approach). In the meantime, not wanting to run the Genny unless needing Air Conditioning I wanted some form of inverter to power the fridge when on the hook, and the 12V battery charger for the instruments when underway. Not to mention the plethora of personal electronic devices that need to be charged.

So after replacing the Port 32V bank with the snazzy Rolls batteries I installed a Newmar 32VDC to 24VDC converter to power a 24V 1500W inverter. The converter is limited to 40A continuous which gives me 960W. Just about enough to do what I need to do. Built a shelf in the generator room outboard of the battery bank. Yes, there is the Outback 32V inverter, but that puppy is $1800 and will be obsolete when the 32V to 24V conversion is complete.

After figuring out the supply schematics (in that other thread) I disconnected the 110V/50A feeds from the fuse box and tied the inverter into them. No surgery whatsoever upstairs needed. I will add a 10A AC ammeter in there to manage the load. I'll put that by the tie in/battery charger in the SB engine room.

Picture shows Port 110V/50A selected on S1 and S2..... the iights even work...... I will re-label the switch.

 

[Pascal]

Sorry but using a converter to feed an inverter doesn’t make any sense especially if the inverter has a higher rating than your converter.

I hope that “I disconnected the 110V/50A feeds from the fuse box and tied the inverter into them.“ doesn’t mean what I think it means ....

What kind of inverter did you use? Marine inverter?

Personally I would never feed an inverter from the house bank. I want redundancy. I want the inverter fed by a dedicated inverter bank so that my house bank doesn’t discharge for the critical systems like bilge pumps and heads.

 

[oscarvan]

Why doesn't it make sense to use a converter to feed an inverter? There is one 32V inverter for sale, it's $$$ and will be obsolete in my plans well before its end of life . There are tons of 24V inverters.

I removed the 110/50A ship side from the shore power fuse box and connected them to the inverter. What's the problem with that? It's an AC source just like the shore power was.

It is not a marine inverter. However neither load nor neutral are connected to the ship's AC system unless in use away from the dock, underway or at anchor, with generator not running. (The double breakers for port 110A/50A for S1 and S2 and the S1 and S2 selectors take care of this)

Redundancy is cool. I have two 32V banks and the SB side is not used for anything other than starting the SB engine. There is also the generator battery which is used only for generator start. The inverter is not used but for 6-8 hours at night and while running. Overnight we're talking maybe 100 Ah out of just north of 200 available. Plenty of redundancy.

 

[Pascal]

Indeed if you eliminated a 120/50 feed and used this to feed the panel, it’s fine. I wasn’t sure what you meant in the original post.

I am not a big fan of adding converters as it adds another point of failure plus loses along the way. I get the temporary logic though.

I have always though the battery system on these boats is less than ideal. Yes it works.. but the correct way is to have dedicated banks for each engine, each generator and house. The only reason to share a bank for house and one engine is to save space for high isn’t an issue on these boats unlike on smaller cruisers.

Once your inverter has used 30% to 40% of the bank capacity, voltage will be too low to ensure maximum capacity on your bilge pumps, and other systems. It s not just ideal.

When I repowered and redid the electrical converting to 24 volts, I setup separate banks. I haven’t replaced the inverter yet (the pos chinese made Xantrex I installed back in 2005 failed a long time ago...) but when I do the inverter will have its own bank.

 

[oscarvan]

The generator has its own dedicated battery. Again, inverter consumption overnight would be around 50-60Ah, the bank is 360Ah total, so 50% is 180Ah, and inverter usage would be a third of that. Well within the most conservative parameters.

There, properly labeled now:

 

[SKYCHENEY]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with installing an inverter on the house bank. Any good inverter will shut down at 50% or so of battery capacity so all house systems will still be functioning. And the bilge pumps run off of the start bank and not the house so no issue there. The OEM generator starts off of the start bank and not the house, but many/most have replaced the gen and now have their own dedicated battery.

Using the house bank reduces the number of batteries which reduces maintenance and weight and cost. It makes sense.

 

[Boatsb]

Either a house bank or dedicated inverter bank works. Its all about design.

Lead acid needs recharge time and energy. If it's not topped off it's bad for the batteries and the last few percent of charge takes a lot of extra power.

Running a dedicated inverter bank may not always be easy. Running 32 volts for an inverter bank is crazy. If you need add a small 24 volt inverter bank and set it up to charge from the 32 volt systems and an AC source.

It works when designed correctly. I've built a few.

 

[ocean spirit]

To accomplish the charging of my 12v inverter batteries while under way I installed a victron smart solar charger between the stb 32v battery bank and the 12v inverter bank. Batteries stay 100 percent all day . Wish I know years ago. Cheap / easy fix. Contact Scott Bickwid for details . Was a great help to me .

 

[Boatsb]

Real systems can be set to shut the inverter down before the batteries are dead. Also you can track watts and battery level accurately in the software .

I've set up a bunch of systems that charge from other sources than the inverter. Its a system solution not a 1 or 2 piece fix.

 

[Photolomy]

The 32v outback inverter has been discontinued for a few years now, so you have to go 24v on the inverter. I guess you switch your 32v battery charger off while the inverter is on, and then back on when you run the shore/generator.

 

[oscarvan]

The 32v outback inverter has been discontinued for a few years now, so you have to go 24v on the inverter. I guess you switch your 32v battery charger off while the inverter is on, and then back on when you run the shore/generator.

I switch just about everything off when on inverter. When at anchor the fridge and outlets are on, with active load management on the latter.

Underway the 12V charger is also on.

BTW... I did find the Outback on line again showing available..... Didn't call to ask if it is in fact true.

http://www.mlsolar.com/outback-vfx3232m-3-2kw-32v-vented-off-grid-inverter/

 

[Photolomy]

They are not available. I called before. Some places just don't have accurate websites. Especially that one. I would like to do 32v but have resigned myself to 24v and using 200AH Renergy batteries. I like the idea of a charger/inverter, but if you use just an inverter and charge the batteries with a separate charger, then the inverter does not have to be marine grade. Marine grade is only required if you are running AC through the inverter as well (which is the case with a charger/inverter). You need a beefy charger though, to refresh your batteries in a timely fashion.

How do you turn your inverter (and Newmar converter) off?

 

[oscarvan]

How do you turn your inverter (and Newmar converter) off?

I have to go into the generator/battery room and flip the switches on the boxes. In theory that's a pain, but I go in there anyways before and after we are underway to do checks. I can however control whether the inverter is on line with the selectors on the panel upstairs (S1, S2 and the associated breakers). There is no harm in them being on and idle.

 

[Boatsb]

Marine products treat common (neutral) and ground different

 

[Boatsb]

Marine products treat common (neutral) and ground differently and charger issues are not a simple easy thing. Your zincs will thank you for doing things right.

Battery management systems and charge profiles are important. Battery voltage monitoring is a big part of a system lasting. The engineers that designed these systems know what their doing.

It's not worth reinventing the wheel.