Inverter and Solar Project

[Gpconbeer]

In June we took possession of a 1999 52 CPMY. Other than an updated chart plotter and two VHF radios, I think the boat is the same as the day it left the factory.We are contemplating some changes to the electrical system and are looking for some advice.First, a little history.We upgraded from a 1988 Hatt 40 Dc that we bought in 2017 to do the Loop. We did some extensive mods and upgrades for the Loop and the boat proved to be very appropriate to its intended purpose. Among the changes were to completely re-wire the 12 volt DC system. We removed the 8D batteries and replaced them with golf cart batteries for the house bank and Gp 27’s for engine start. We added 600 watts of solar which, because our refrigeration was DC, allowed us to avoid running the generator except for air conditioning which was infrequent. We also upgraded one alternator to charge the house bank. Originally, we had planned to add an inverter but our electrician recommended we wait on that because our AC loads were so low. We never found a need in our five years of ownership.We just returned from our first cruise on the new boat, about 600 miles through the northern two-thirds of Lake Michigan. Because we only have AC refrigeration, we ran the generator whenever we were not connected to shore power. Because of diesel costs, we found it cheaper to stay in a marina than to run the generator full time.The boat’s DC system is 24 volt with a DC converter to power the 12 volt instruments. It has 4 8D’s, paralleled to make two 24 volt banks. Both serve as engine start banks and one, I believe, serves as the house bank (ship’s service) for DC loads.Our use of the boat will be much different than our Hatt 40. We have a permanent slip now in Michigan and will be on the boat from May through September. We will probably cruise around 30 days each year.The question is how to modify/upgrade the electrical system to make it more efficient and conducive to anchoring out than it is now.Obviously, to reduce generator use, we need an inverter for refrigeration. Based on my prior experience, I’m a big fan of solar. With the old boat, we could stay on the hook for 3 days without running the generator if the sun was shining. I’m intrigued by Lithium iron phosphate batteries.I should add that at our age, god willing, we see about a 5 or 6 year ownership window.What do you folks think the scope of this project should be?

 

[52CMY]

Hello,
I have a 1990 52CMY down on Galveston Bay.
I'm in the middle of an extensive electrical upgrade:
Two 5000W Victron Quattro Inverters set up for split phase 240, 31KWH of LiFiPro4 Batteries (48v bank in a rack mount), 2400watts of solar (my tender is on a hydr lift at the stern so have lots of room up on top for flex SunPower Panels on the sundeck as well as 2x400 watt bifacial rigid panels on the radar arch).

My system is designed to allow carefree running all electrics on board except HVAC and Hot water at anchor without ever needing GenSet unless cloudy for several days. If I run the GenSet in the afternoon for 3-4hrs, can fully charge the Lithium bank, AND run all A/Cs, Hot water, galley, W/D, etc on a managed & monitored 240V bus. When I shut down the GenSet, I shutdown the Salon HVAC and Hot Water, but I can still run the forward (and maybe aft) stateroom HVAC over night for 10 hours before I need to shut them down when I get to 10% battery. Solar recharges batteries in morning until I fire up the GENSET again next afternoon. At least that's my plan.

(BTW: I've replaced all lights with LED, Moderized TVs and audio for power efficiency, and minimized my nonessential electrical loads (which is hard to do on a Hatteras as there were lots of hidden power sucks on my boat from the last refit in 2007. I found added unused antenna/power boosters, transformers, and electronics boxes powered up on STBY all burning a few watts of power behind bulkheads, stereo racks, and in voids everywhere-- that add up quickly.

Using the Quattro "Power Boost" function, I can pug into shore power and smart manage my consumption and charging insuring I never overload/burn another shorepower plug while maximizing Shorepower wattage (for flat rate shorepower) or minimizing shorepower wattage (when shorepower cost is metered).

Also, the 48V House bank gives me redundancy for my old Onan 1990 genset. When my Onan finally dies, I'll consider replacing it with a more efficient 8-12KW genset, reducing noise and fuel consumption, with my battery bank buffering surge loads that would overload a smaller capacity genset.


I'm still running my 24V house loads on my Port Start Battery via an upgraded MasterVolt 240VAC to 24VDC smartcharger, but also have a backup Victron 48-24V DC-DC.

My helm electronics are either 24v or 12v, and run off a 24-12V DC-DC converter. I also have an emergency 12v LiFePro Battery that's trickle charging and set to switch over in an emergency power situation for helm electronics.

I plan to remove my STARBOARD Leece Neville direct drive alternator and rewind it to produce ~52V for charging the 48V Lithium bank via a smart voltage regulator designed to rapidly charge LiFePro banks safely.

Battery prices have come way down over the last 2 years. Victron components for Inverters/PPTs/and monitoring seem to be the best on the market. A big unknown at this time is how Marine Insurance underwriters are going to handle so many yachts with electrical system mods and lithium--some insurers are limiting coverage or might cancel coverage in the future, TBD.

The new "Inflation Reduction Act" just provided a 30% tax credit for Solar/Invertor upgrades to residences. Second Homes & Yachts are not excluded at this time so much of the install and hardware should be eligible for a 30% income tax credit...crazy. (This is not tax advice, see your tax advisor for applicability in your case).

Seems like you may be happy with something smaller, but a fully integrated upgrade may be the way to go. Scott Bickwid is a professional Marine upgrade Electrician on this Forum. He's based in Cocoa Beach, FL and has helped me and a few others on this forum with great advice.

Feel free to give me a shout if you'd like to talk more about my system.

 

[zigzag930]

Definitely call Scot B and talk with him. He can help you sort out what you need, supply the equipment and also help install all or some of it as you deem necessary.

He took great care of me on our 58LRC when we did the inverter & wiring systems. Glad he convinced me to go with Victron over my original plan (alternative brand).

J

 

[Addie-Kat]

I second everything that Eric said in the above post. I installed 2 10kw victron Quattro inverter chargers and 31kw lithium phosphate batteries, 660 amp hours at 48volts. I also installed almost 3000 watts of solar on my hardtop. Everything that Eric said above will be 100% correct, as i have already seen it. I will also second speaking to Scott B as he was the one to install my system in New Bern NC this past January.

Andy

 

[Boatsb]

Design is a huge part of the project.

I've been doing this a long time and know the way it should work. I also consider recharge times and power availability.

Just remember you may not consider many factors that make it transparent to use.

 

[Pascal]

Putting aside the potential risks associated with lithium batteries, what is the total cost of the set up between batteries, inverters and solar panels?

 

[metama]

Andy (and Scott), Impressive install. Would you be willing to post up some Power, Inverter, Solar logs with rough weather notes? With our power usage, and NO AC/Hot water/Watermaker, seems like you can run off inverter for 3+ days without sun? Or run 2-3 AC's for 24 hrs? Would love to learn what you are experiences with the solar.

Im running (2) 3600 Watt inverters with a 480AH @24V AGM's near EOL. It's not enough and Im considering adding 1560-2320 of solar panels and changing to a larger lithium bank.

Would be great if you shared what you are seeing for Solar support.

I also changed out one of our 2 alternators to 24V.
And yes the inverters pass through 60amps each of shore power, and no I don't need 4 AC's running on the hook.

Now- to anyone who I talk with off-line.

Randy, I finally figured out the power thing on shore power! One of the 2 Inverters blew an AC input and was pulling DC power for 1/2 the panel. It saw the AC shore connection and would "support" it, creating all sorts of issues. Till I get a new AC board I have that inverter bypassed on shore power.

Scott, ya, it was an issue with the inverter you told me not to use. You where right!

 

[jim rosenthal]

If you haven't already looked at this, you might consider installing a water heater with a coolant loop in it. Basically all marine water heaters are available with this- it's a metal pipe in the water chamber that is connected to the cooling system of either one of the drive engines or the generator set. Waste heat from that engine's cooling system is used to heat the fresh water.


You get 180 degree hot water, and since the water heater tank is in the engine room, it stays hot for days. Unless you are on the hook for days and days, you will not need to use AC to heat the water heater. The best ones seem to be made by IsoTemp, but there are a lot of them out there.

 

[Addie-Kat]

What I have found is my hour by hour watt usage for all essential items, including T.V., ice maker, beer fridge, full size fridge, 3 fans for air circulation, etc uses between 1050 -1200 watts. When the sun is high enough the solar will produce between 2400-3000 watts and hour on a clear day. By about 10am solar will be making about 1200-1400 watts. This will allow you to run a small ac unit and hardly draw down the batteries during peak sun. I make sure that my batteries are topped off prior to retiring for the night. This allows me to use the master stateroom air conditioning and operate the boat with typical house loads, and still have plenty of battery left to spare in the morning. It will typically take about an hour and fifteen minutes to an hour and forty five minutes to bring the batteries fully charged in the morning using the generator. I am now thinking about installing large 48 volt alternators on the main engines. This will allow me to run all house loads and a few ac units while underway and not need any sun or amp hours from the batteries. This will be great on the long passages that we have been doing recently. Hope this helps

 

[Del922]

New here and looking at an Electrical Re-fit on a new to me 1998 52 Sport Deck. Could you tell me who Scott B is and where to find him? Thank you in advance.

Definitely call Scot B and talk with him. He can help you sort out what you need, supply the equipment and also help install all or some of it as you deem necessary.He took great care of me on our 58LRC when we did the inverter & wiring systems. Glad he convinced me to go with Victron over my original plan (alternative brand).J

 

[pmacFL]

This is an intriguing post. I am in the design phase for an '83 56MY, so I thought i would chime in. One of the biggest challenges that i see is running the dc cables from the top all the way to the generator room in a clean, protected route.
I had already purchased SunPower flexible panels, but I am worried about putting them on the soft top. I have read reports of short life span due to flexing and potential for fire. The attached diagram has SunGold SG-460WGB panels instead. 6 will fit forward of the radar mast.

System inventory includes (2) victron quattro 48/5000, victron cerbo, gx, (4) victron 200ah 24v LiFePO4 batteries, and the rest of what is in diagram.

I am attaching schematic for reference and design ideas. I hope it is legible.

Good luck with your install.

Hatt na Mara
83 MY

 

[captruffcs]

Putting aside the potential risks associated with lithium batteries, what is the total cost of the set up between batteries, inverters and solar panels?

Didn’t see any one responding to Pascal?

 

[Vincentc]

Interesting topic. I’ve been very pleased with my basic inverter setup using 4 golf cart batteries allowing me to run lights, refrigerator and freezer for about 10 hours saving generator use when the AC isn’t needed. It definitely worked from a cost benefit standpoint. The only regret is choosing 12v rather than 24v. The boat has a 12v system and I thought I’d use the engine alternator to charge the inverter battery bank and have the bank available to jump start an engine. That hasn’t been a benefit and 24v would have allowed simpler cable runs.
The ambitious projects discussed sound attractive, but I’m curious to know costs.

 

[zigzag930]

Scot B is boatsb on this forum. He was posted to this thread, so just reply to him.