Insurance...... got kicked to the curb by NMU

[Angela]

"Great Lakes Reinsurance" - no way, Jose, not today, not any day...would I pay for that policy! Been there; done that; got the tee-shirt. And when it's time for renewal, boy are they assholes. They actually said to me, "We know we're your only game in town and you'll pay our premium or else." This was for a renewal where they thought they'd screw me with a 65% increase in the premium following a year of no storms, no claim, etc. When I asked why, the response was "because we can."

You buy that policy and remember...buyer beware, and pray you never have to make a claim - you'll be owing them money after they get done depreciating your "old boat." I chose no insurance over renewing that crap and told Great Lakes to go pound sand. Best insurance decision I ever made!

 

[Brian Degulis]

Whoa....check this out! this is a grand less than my last policy and I can go to Florida anytime I want. I didnt see any red flags in the policy either. I still am getting more quotes but this looks pretty good.

Thank all of you for the help..




Dear Todd:



Please find attached a quote and standard policy wording for coverage on your Viking 48 from Great Lakes Reinsurance, a surplus lines company that is rated by A.M. Best A+ (Superior) and is part of the Munich Group, the largest insurance company in the world. This is important as we would not have the confidence in the stability of a small company in the event of major hurricane losses and subsequent claims obligations that we have in a company with such major assets.

The annual premium is $3,785 and does include coverage for named windstorms and hurricanes with double the standard hull deductible.

Thank you for the opportunity to provide you with this quote, and please email or call us at 800-990-9283 if you have any questions or would like to secure coverage.

Please note this is a quote for insurance and not a binder and no coverage is in place. If you wish to start coverage please let us know and we can send the application and secure a binder.

Best regards,
Gloria Hodgens, CPSR
W.R. Hodgens Marine Insurance, Inc.
2015 SW 20th Street, Suite 100
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33315
(800) 990-9283 (954) 523-6867
Fax: (954) 523-6488
Located at Lauderdale Marine Center
www.yachtinsure.com
gloria@yachtinsure.com

I just went through this with the 60C and it's areal pain if your down south. Great lakes is a UK underwriter and should be viewed as inferior to a US underwriter. The only US underwriter I've ever been able to find that will write larger older boats in the south is Boat US. This problem started after the hurricane season of 2004. Boat US is a good company but they can be expensive and difficult to deal with. The UK policies are better than nothing and may be worth the savings but you need to know the diffrence.

A friend of mine who lives a few houses down from us bought a brand new Ricker on the east coast of FL. For some reason his Insurance broker set him up with UK insurance. When he was bringing the boat home they hit sometning in the Big 0 waterway tore off an outdrive and sunk the boat. It was a total loss. The insurance company refused the claim becuase a from was filled out wrong. Where they asked for operators and experience he mixed up himself and his wife. I other words he had lots of experience and his wife very little. He simply mixed up the names showing his wife with his experience. He was running the boat at the time. So for 2 years he's been making payments on a boat he doesn't have and paying a lawyer to sue the insurance company. The lawyer told him that in the intial conversations with the UK company he told them that they would sue and win. The insurance company said we know that but that's how it's going to go.

My experience with a UK company at work was much better. We had a chemical fire that did about 100K in damage. I had to wait about 120 days but we did get paid.

Brian

 

[Vincentc]

Has anyone looked for a policy which excluded hurricane damage?

It appears that Southern boat owners are paying for past hurricane losses and as noted a lot of those losses come from failing to take reasonable precautions for the storm. Liability coverage only is an option for mortgage free boats and a less drastic option would be Hull coverage that excluded hurricane damage. To my observation/experience a properly secured boat is likely to be damaged but not destroyed by a hurricane and the probable damage is probably close to the deductible.

Just a thought. My premium with Nationwide increased but is still tolerable. So I have no need to look for X Hurricane coverage.

I understand that N-wide has stopped accepting new apps for boats > 40 feet.
Regards,
Vincent

 

[solanderi]

FWIW,

Here is my carrier. Crumpets and tea all the way but Florida aint an easy place to find coverage. Hope this helps. Contact person is Casey Sinclair.

Smith-Merritt Insurance, Inc.
2931 NE 16th Street
Pompano Beach, Florida 33062
www.smith-merritt.com
954-784-1807 Phone

Greg
1985 45 C
Hat Time

 

[Brian Degulis]

Has anyone looked for a policy which excluded hurricane damage?

It appears that Southern boat owners are paying for past hurricane losses and as noted a lot of those losses come from failing to take reasonable precautions for the storm. Liability coverage only is an option for mortgage free boats and a less drastic option would be Hull coverage that excluded hurricane damage. To my observation/experience a properly secured boat is likely to be damaged but not destroyed by a hurricane and the probable damage is probably close to the deductible.

Just a thought. My premium with Nationwide increased but is still tolerable. So I have no need to look for X Hurricane coverage.

I understand that N-wide has stopped accepting new apps for boats > 40 feet.
Regards,
Vincent

I tried to do that but most companies will not alter they're standard policies and procedures.

Brian

 

[Canuck Dennis]

If you read any UK issued coverage, you will see that all litigation has to be in London......

 

[Angela]

My experience has been that any insurance company that will offer coverge in South Florida, in the first place, will offer hurricane exclusion. - I've never been rejected "hurricane exclusion." And I'm considering it for next year!

Every UK policy I've seen was a depreciating value policy, not an agreed value. There's the rub, and it's a nasty rash. I'm not saying you can't find a UK AGREED VALUE policy; I'm just saying I've never found one myself. And when you get through their depreciating policy, and you make a claim, they'll own your boat and you'll owe them money for the pleasure of having been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Read the fine print.

 

[Brian Degulis]

Boat US would not offer me a hurricane exclusion. They have a named storm deductible. My ordinary deductible is $1500 The named storm deductible is 37K. That seems to be they're standard since they dropped prices in 2007. I could have gotten a much better deal with an agreed value from UK Special risks but for the reasons stated above I'd rather pay a little more for a little less and be more confident a claim will be paid.

With the 60C the problem at first with Boat US was that they would not insure for more than purchase price + major additions. They would not take into acount that the boat was purchased cheap because of the condition it was in. The purchase price at this point is 1/3 of the survey value. I considered doing it but then relized that that would permit the company to call lessor damage a constuctive loss. In order to make a claim on a contructive loss I would be forced to give the boat to the insurance Co to collect. Which means I could have a situation were the boat was damaged but repairable and because of the low agreed value it would make no sense for me to give up the boat to collect. I managed to convince them to go with a higher agreed value About 2/3 of survey value and I can live with that.So be carefull with grossly under insuring.

Brian

 

[Genesis]

Boat/US started this crap around here after Ivan - they were cutting the insurable value to ~60-70% of surveyed value, no negotiating.

This is a major "screw you" because it is typical that on any loss over 50% of insured value the company will declare a total constructive loss and pay you. This however takes the boat from you - at a 30-40% instantaneous cash loss to you!

This can, in some cases, be VERY PROFITABLE for the insurance company and force you to eat a potential loss of as much as 35% of the vessel's actual value even though you have "insurance".

The only reasonable policy on a marine risk where you're insuring the hull (not just liability) is for agreed-value coverage on surveyed market value. If they want to buy the boat from you after a constructive loss they're welcome to - for a price that you can replace like with like. That stops the game-playing.

 

[Brian Degulis]

The big deal with them is purchase price they don't want to insure you for more than you paid for the boat. It's the second time I've run into it and I'm surprized they wrote me a policy. It took about 2 weeks of back and forth and they actually refused it then changed they're mind.

They're logic is if they insure you for more than purchase price then you would profit on a loss and that's stupid. I asked them what if I were given a 2 million dollar yacht then you would only insure for 0 ? The woman actually told me in that case we could only offer liability.

Brian

 

[captddis]

The big deal with them is purchase price they don't want to insure you for more than you paid for the boat. It's the second time I've run into it and I'm surprized they wrote me a policy. It took about 2 weeks of back and forth and they actually refused it then changed they're mind.

They're logic is if they insure you for more than purchase price then you would profit on a loss and that's stupid. I asked them what if I were given a 2 million dollar yacht then you would only insure for 0 ? The woman actually told me in that case we could only offer liability.

Brian

I went through that when I bought my boat as I paid 100,000 under original ask price because of the blown engine. I had the binder at the market value with good engines. The survey valuation was with the bad engine and BUS lowered the value. I protested and was told to submit documentation when the engines were done and the value would be raised back up. I did and it was.

 

[Genesis]

Yeah, that worked until they started jacking with people around here.

If they've stopped, that's a good thing.

But in this case they were reducing the "agreed value" on boats that people had owned for a few years to WAY under their survey value (and purchase price!)

 

[daniel r morrison]

I faced the same thing several years ago. My decision was to buy liability only, $500.00/year for $300,000.00 coverage . It won't be long until I can replace my boat with the savings if need be. Between the high premium and the large deductible there was little benefit in buying full coverage, set aside the low agreed value which would certainly benefit the insurance co upon a total loss as my new engines, gears , gen set ect. are worth quite a bit by themselves

 

[DCMY #92]

We've had a policy with Travelers on our 1965 Hat for several years. I've been with the same agency in Tampa on this boat for 28 years. The boat is in Florida full time. I experience the same unreasonable price, high deductible and low replacement value that others have described. Year before last I priced liability only and got a premium quote that was not very much different from full coverage. Travelers and Boat US both offered similar coverage at about the same terms and premium. I stayed with Travelers' full coverage. Ironically, I just increased my liability coverage from $300k to $500k for a premium increase of only $56.

Due to the age of the boat, I have been careful over the years to stay with the same agency in the hopes of avoiding problems with cancellation, etc. I'll never know if this actually helped, is due to the fact that I have never made a claim, or if it just cost me more in premiums – but I have never had a problem not being offered renewal. However, I've paid enough in premiums to have bought the boat at my original purchase price about 3 times since we bought her in 1982.

One positive point - (that's not worth all that much) I have only been required to survey for insurance renewal twice in the 28 years we have owned this boat. I have always sent the agency unsolicited documentation of upgrades and maintenance records in hopes of avoiding frequent surveys for renewal. Again, I'll never know if this helped, or just makes me feel better.

I renewed the coverage with Travelers again in September, but will shop around when Loose Changes completes her refit. Hopefully the insurance market won't get even worse by then.

 

[lldks]

Well since we've just recently bought Seadation, we have nothing to compare to. The last time, we had a large boat (and it wasn't this old) we had no problem getting insurance in Texas but then again, that was pre Ike, Rita, and Katrina. We have gone with Smith-Merrit but have also been unhappy with the low value (compared to survey) and the difficulty adding to the value for the money that we've spent refitting it. I planned to shop around again when it was time for renewal, but that might be a moot point. One question - you guys that mention going with a commercial policy - what does one need to go that route? Does it need to be a charter boat?

 

[tdiscon]

Well getting hull insurance in the New Orleans area is not appearing to be an easy task for a 1973 43ft DCMY. I have read the posts on insurance. What would be the board's recommendation today for Hull Coverage. Forget Boat/U.S. And I have been offered plenty of liability coverage only. Agents name and contact info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[stormchaser]

That may be a tall order... I've heard that getting hull insurance even on relatively new boats in NO is next to impossible.

 

[Capt. Tobb]

I am in Biloxi and got a good price from W.R. Hodgens Marine Insurance, Inc.
2015 SW 20th Street, Suite 100Fort Lauderdale, FL 33315(800) 990-9283 (954) 523-6867 Fax: (954) 523-6488

Chances are that they will offer a policy from England, you will see a lot of opinions on that subject in this thread. I had a marine ins guy(didnt have a dog in the fight) tell me that some of the Brit paper is terrible but agents here are gravitating towards the better policy writers. Read and understand everything in the policy seems to be the rule. Hope this helps.

Kinda off topic but it is funny how before Katrina I had stacks of boating mags next to the toilet. Now I have stacks of policy binders (hazard, wind, flood, marine).

Happy hunting.....

 

[Canuck Dennis]

Yep, the language in the policy is "terrible" and, if you are on the plaintifs end of a claim and expect these guys to step up and look after your interest..no way..and conversly,,if you screw up. your defence has to be conducted in the UK..see how marinas like that coverage when they start to learn about off shore insurance..they would be really upset to have to sue you in the UK. You are covered...hopefully...I grew up there and Ins Co's failed every 3 or 4 mos.

 

[tdiscon]

Thanks, I will give the Florida Agency a call right way.