I'm really getting PO'd with these salesmen....

[oscarvan]

Warning: <Rant>

There's a Bertram on YW.... doesn't matter which one. Description claims:

"Powered by twin Detroit Diesel 12V-71N workhorses, with approximately 3800 hours on starboard and 3,700 hours on port which will keep on running long after we are all gone! "

So I sent a nice email asking how he could claim that as I am planning on living at least another 35-40 years...... OK I said, I'll cut some slack.... Do you have ALL manufacturers recommended maintenance documented since new?"

We'll see. Idiots.

<Rant over>

 

[tellico]

From my experience as a (frustrated) shopper, if you are going direct to each and every listing broker you will drive yourself nuts. It's sales, and it's their job to get attention, which worked in your example (i.e., bad press is better than no press.) As in most things in life, some brokers are good, some are not so good, and some are outright @#$%#.

I my case, after several years of searching for the next boat, I have finally aligned with a broker representing me as a buyer (a "buyers broker" of sorts) and he does the initial calls and due diligence and translates that back to me. I've come close on one so far but didn't bite, and he hasn't dropped me, so we'll see where it goes.

This is not my BAU style in business or life, I generally represent myself as that's what I do for a living.
But I have found that in boat shopping I am back to actually enjoying the experience rather than feeling misled, trapped and in some cases screwed (see previous post.)

Just my 3.5 cents...

 

[Glory]

It's just one of the things brokers an salesman like to say, for example "Captain maintained" remember the Titanic, being a captain doesn't mean $#!t if the owner wouldn't pay or "never been fished" I know many fisherman that give their boats great care, or "owner wants sold now" is there a time when that isn't true? My favorite "maintained with an open check book" spending alot of money doesn't mean good results.

Ignore the bs and look at the meat!

 

[Freeebird]

Warning: <Rant>

There's a Bertram on YW.... doesn't matter which one. Description claims:

"Powered by twin Detroit Diesel 12V-71N workhorses, with approximately 3800 hours on starboard and 3,700 hours on port which will keep on running long after we are all gone! "

So I sent a nice email asking how he could claim that as I am planning on living at least another 35-40 years...... OK I said, I'll cut some slack.... Do you have ALL manufacturers recommended maintenance documented since new?"

We'll see. Idiots.

<Rant over>

Ever hear of a little thing called poetic license?

At 3,800 hours, it is very conceivable that they could last the new owner a lifetime, depending on how they run the boat. Lots of owners do well to put 100 hours per year on a boat. How old is that Bertram?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Ever hear of a little thing called poetic license?

At 3,800 hours, it is very conceivable that they could last the new owner a lifetime, depending on how they run the boat. Lots of owners do well to put 100 hours per year on a boat. How old is that Bertram?

I have to agree. It sounds like he is just trying to make a point. A buyer unfamiliar with Detroits may not be aware of the usual longevity of a naturally aspirated 12v71.

That statement doesn't bother me at all. Its when the broker tells you the boat is in mint condition and you take time to go see it only to find out that its a pile of crap that ticks me off.

 

[krush]

Dr. House stated it the best "Everybody lies".

 

[Freeebird]

http://www.unitedyacht.com/used-boa...ternational/motor-yacht/pilothouse/1970/2883/

Boat is 46 years old. Do the math.

 

[dottieshusband]

What's all the fuss about engine condition? ALL boats come with a Universal Guarantee... And all boat components are covered... It's guaranteed that some component is broken, or soon will be, guaranteed! All statements about condition are just sellers puff, even a surveyor is just giving his opinion or observation on a particular day. Just plan on spending some money, and if you don't have to, then just be happy!

 

[saltshaker]

Educate yourself to what boats and engines you are interested in and ignore all the listing hype. You have to climb aboard most of these boats or have someone do a pre inspection for you if the boats not near by. Most of the boats I've looked at as potential purchases usually fall short of my expectations or thier representation. I don't let it bother me too much except when you are lied to about condition and you waste time and money traveling to see a pig. It's happened to all of us more than once. I enjoy the shopping process but only to a point. I need to make a purchase or else I feel I've wasted my time. Shop smart and be realistic about what you can get for your money and you'll find a boat. If the BS drives you crazy then you'll never find that gem amongst all the good and bad listings.

 

[rsmith]

Warning: <Rant>

There's a Bertram on YW.... doesn't matter which one. Description claims:

"Powered by twin Detroit Diesel 12V-71N workhorses, with approximately 3800 hours on starboard and 3,700 hours on port which will keep on running long after we are all gone! "

So I sent a nice email asking how he could claim that as I am planning on living at least another 35-40 years...... OK I said, I'll cut some slack.... Do you have ALL manufacturers recommended maintenance documented since new?"

We'll see. Idiots.

<Rant over>

My 48 year old 12/71's now have just shy of 10,000 tach hours on them which with the amount of trolling time I've done is probably close to 20,000 hours clock time. They have had one rebuild at 6500 hours strictly because the injector tubes started to leak coolant. All the bearings rings and cylinder sleeves were almost to new specs when removed. I've run the boat in fairly heavy charter service for nearly 40 years. Yes if the oil and water keep flowing they will outlast you and probably your offspring.

 

[Finalee]

Buyers are liars and sellers are too.

 

[jrbrein]

My 48 year old 12/71's now have just shy of 10,000 tach hours on them which with the amount of trolling time I've done is probably close to 20,000 hours clock time. They have had one rebuild at 6500 hours strictly because the injector tubes started to leak coolant. All the bearings rings and cylinder sleeves were almost to new specs when removed. I've run the boat in fairly heavy charter service for nearly 40 years. Yes if the oil and water keep flowing they will outlast you and probably your offspring.

Mr. Smith,

That is amazing!

What is your opinion if your engines had been 12/71 turbos given the same running and maintenance you gave your naturals?

Jonathan Brein

 

[captddis]

The Bertram in the pic is not a real Bertam. It was made overseas and usually glass over wood. Be careful.

 

[saltshaker]

The Bertram in the pic is not a real Bertam. It was made overseas and usually glass over wood. Be careful.

Doesn't look like one either. I had no idea there were fake Bertrams out there in the 70's.

 

[captddis]

Doesn't look like one either. I had no idea there were fake Bertrams out there in the 70's.

I think Richard Bertram lent his name to the builders after he sold Bertram Yacht.

 

[captddis]

Doesn't look like one either. I had no idea there were fake Bertrams out there in the 70's.

I think Richard Bertram lent his name to the builders after he sold Bertram Yacht. They were called Bertram Internationals. Most have rotted away.

 

[Freeebird]

Dave, I'm not sure if it's still around, but did you ever see the big Bertram motoryacht at Riviera Dunes that was there when my 58 was?

Can't remember the guy's name, but it was a pretty big boat with an added cockpit.

 

[Boatsb]

I wonder if their real detroits or something built elsewhere under license.

 

[captddis]

Dave, I'm not sure if it's still around, but did you ever see the big Bertram motoryacht at Riviera Dunes that was there when my 58 was?

Can't remember the guy's name, but it was a pretty big boat with an added cockpit.

Yes remember it well. It was for sale for a long time.

 

[SeaEric]

That Bertram International was my dock neighbor here at Piney Narrows for years. She was called Real Escape. That owner donated her because he couldn't sell her. Last time I saw her she was in Ft Myers. That is a fiberglass hull with deck and superstructure being a "sandwich construction" (their ad description from the 1970's) which is glass over wood. She was a soft deck marvel when she was here, which was easily 15 years ago. These boats IIRC were built in Japan.