Ideal Windlass

[Scott Mather]

Just spent two days removing an 1978 very rusted/correded Ideal Windless that ways a lot. Ended up using a crinder to cut into many pieces to get removed and then a lot or sledge hammer to get out of deck.

Question is what do I replace with? Any better than others?

Thanks,

 

[MicroKap]

I replaced mine with a Lewmar V4. So much smaller and really solid. Uses chain/line rode very well as long as it's a good splice. I have two dedicated 12V batteries and a charger set up just for the windlass. Pull up an 80 lb CQR very well.

 

[MikeP]

There is no better windlass made than the Ideals. Parts are avaialble for every model they produced since they started business in the 1930's and their customer service is superb. I would have suggested that you disassemble yours and restore it, however much time/care that would have taken. However...from your post it sounds as if you cut it up so that is not an option.

There are plenty of windlasses around - "Good" is a well known brand as is "Lewmar." Either of these brands would have a size/type suitable for the boat.

Galley Maid is also an option - they copied ("stole" in Ideal's words) the Ideal plans and look almost exactly the same. Parts will even interchange. GM claims they are the equal of the Ideals; Ideal claims otherwise! Frankly, I'd put another Ideal or GM on rather than another brand since they both seem to be randomly oem from Hatt .

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I agree with MikeP. We have owned Ideal and Lewmar and now GalleyMaid. The Ideal was the best unit and I would not hesitate to buy another one. They are really built well and made to rebuild rather than replace. The trick to removing either the GM or the Ideal is to weld up a pipe to fit over the shaft with a strike plate on top. Have your best friend(or enemy)hold the pipe on the outer ring of the case where it comes through the deck while you whale on it with a big maul. This seems like it would damage the deck or pulpit, but it doesn't.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I've never owned a boat with a windlass. Nordhavn uses Maxwells on their boats, which are not built to a price. They would be worth looking at. What about a rebuilt or new Ideal? They are supposed to be very durable.

 

[(Nobody You Know)]

Galley Maid still mfgs. the same system with a vertical shaft and capstan. You really don't want this. They have no way of controlling moisture from penetrating the shaft hole (vertical) and not only doing serious damage to the deck core but to also the gear housing (as moisture will eventually trickle down and settle on bottom of same). Over time it will seriously rust the housing. And you will need a router to gut out the damege to the deck core.

I believe a Moderator of this Forum had the same bad luck with Galley Maid as I did. Fortunately for me I knew of a local fabricating shop that was able to rebuild my gear housing brackets with stainless steel for a modest sum.

The GM system will also allow moisture to follow the vertical shaft right into the gear box over time as well. And then they have the gonads to tell you that it (water in the gear box) will not hurt anything. LOL

Find something else. Better yet, call Hatty engineers and find out what they are putting in ner boats.

I wish you luck.

 

[MikeP]

I think Hatt's are using Maxwells now - I know they did at least on some boats in '02. You might want to check them out as well - they are excellent also.

Regardless of the brand you decide to purchase, like anything, if it's good quality and properly installed/maintained, it will last a LONG time. Most "problems" on these old Hatts are caused by years of neglect or owner stupidity rather than inherent issues with the original components/installation.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

If installed right, there is no moisture risk to the deck or pulpit with the GalleyMaid. The problems were caused by improper installation. The hole was cut though the core and the core was not sealed. Also, the shaft seal is not going to allow moisture into the gearbox unless it is worn out or otherwise damaged during installation. GalleyMaid specifically ssays to be careful not to damage this shaft seal when you are installing or removing the windlass.

These are not bad units. In fact, most have lasted 20-30years before rebuild. I would and did rebuild my GM windlass. They are built very heavy and their only drawback is a purported worm gear that will wear prematurely if run excessively in reverse. I sealed my coring with epoxy before re-installing my GalleyMaid and then I liberrally caulked the shaft and the bolt holes when it went back in. It won't be easy to get it back out if I have to, but there will not be any water damage either.

 

[Walter P]

I have a GM which works fine, however it won't handle all chain which I plan to get. The GM company will convert it to include a wildcat and a capstan but the cost is too high in light of the possible problem of excessive wear while deploying chain. I think in light of all this, it makes more sense to buy a new Ideal already set up for chain/rope, and as I understand Ideal doesn't have the same premature wear in reverse.

If anyone is interested in my GM, give me a call and an offer...Walt 732-991-5665.

 

[Scott Mather]

Thanks, for the replys. (must have been asleep yesterday, bad spelling!)

Grinder was only option to remove.

The gear box was rusted beyond using wrenches for removal
I was able to use a puller to remove top with out much issue, there was a lot of rust crumbles that fell onto deck, about a cup full.
The steel seals or spacers or what ever they were were preventing the shaft from moving or turning. Had to cut them off.

I will put in a reman./used unit if they are out there.
Do not need to spend a lot of money on features, I have used a windless once in the last 10 years. I will replace just because it should be there for resale.

Good news is that the pulpit must have been corectly sealed because there is no deck damage from windless leaks. Bad news is the foot switch was not sealed correctly and caused deck damage, have not been able to determine how far it goes. Have had experience with this, had to replace decks all around cockpit due to unsealed rod holders.

Thanks,

Again

 

[Dustoff44]

I recently sent my rusting hulk of an Ideal Windlass in for a rebuild. It came back with a new stainless case replacing the old style steel case, new main gear shaft, re-chromed capstan and gypsy. etc etc. After dealing with Ideal I would highly recommend sending whatever you have to them and it will return as if new. A lot less money than buying another brand. Also they answer their phone IMHO

 

[Walter P]

Hi Seacastle,

How sweet it is to deal with an honorable company... Yep, there are still some out there.

Walt

 

[Genesis]

STAINLESS STEEL case?! For real?

WOW. THAT's amazing....... and would be a darn good reason to send it in!

 

[REBrueckner]

Keep an eye on e-bay boat parts for a few weeks and see what brands and prices come up...Compare with prices from, say, Defender, or other sources....Pick a model that fits your existing holes/mounting to reduce installation work; otherwise, decide if you want a vertical or horizontal and motor above or below deck...I prefer self contained models with motor and gears above deck....since you don't use yours, maybe it doesn't matter much, but for me the key is having up/down controls at my helm stations for one man handling in tight quarters...and keeping the captain out of the rain!!!

Dig out soft/wet deck coring and let it dry for a week or two...maybe use a small light bulb to accelerate drying with heat...when dry, refill with epoxy paste, coat opening with liquid expoxy...be good for a lifetime...maybe two!!!

 

[Captnmarc]

All these threads I'm reading are from 2007. Unfortunetly, there customer service is far from what I've read. I sent my windlass to IDEAL after speaking with them on the phone and never recieved a call back after leaving many messages. It'd take 2-3 calls to get someone on the phone who new anything about my windlass, unfortunetly every time I'd talk to Cliff he'd tell me a different story. Yes it's rebuildable, waiting for parts, then it's completely trash, can't do anything??? Can't get parts, but can get a new one??? Now after a very frustrating 6 weeks they want 3 hours labor at $60 per hour plus shipping, for fixing nothing. All 3 shops that looked at it locally- which were the ones to open up the motor, free of charge. When I asked Cliff if it concerned him that I never recieved a call back after numerous attempts and being told by him that he'd call me back in 2 days??? He replied, "did it ever occur to you I'm trying to run a business???"

 

[MikeP]

As I posted on another thread re this - I also had really good service from Ideal but that was 4 years ago. Sadly, it sounds as if their service has gone downhill dramatically. It would be easy to blame the economy and the fact that they need to move more stuff faster as opposed to worrying as much about customers but NOT worrying about customers is the way to go totally out of business. That would be a real shame - they've been making windlasses at least since WW II and it would really be unfortunate if they went out of business. OTOH, it's happened to a lot of "famous" companies...

 

[SKYCHENEY]

All these threads I'm reading are from 2007. Unfortunetly, there customer service is far from what I've read. I sent my windlass to IDEAL after speaking with them on the phone and never recieved a call back after leaving many messages. It'd take 2-3 calls to get someone on the phone who new anything about my windlass, unfortunetly every time I'd talk to Cliff he'd tell me a different story. Yes it's rebuildable, waiting for parts, then it's completely trash, can't do anything??? Can't get parts, but can get a new one??? Now after a very frustrating 6 weeks they want 3 hours labor at $60 per hour plus shipping, for fixing nothing. All 3 shops that looked at it locally- which were the ones to open up the motor, free of charge. When I asked Cliff if it concerned him that I never recieved a call back after numerous attempts and being told by him that he'd call me back in 2 days??? He replied, "did it ever occur to you I'm trying to run a business???"

Isn't this the exact same post you put on another old thread a few weeks ago. Why are you posting this again? Is there any new information?

 

[lumina]

Hi All,

When I purchased the boat the windlass was semi reliable. I couldn't see throwing money at the 34 year old beast and it was driving my guys crazy hauling in all that chain and the anchor whenever it decided to go TU.

I replaced it with a Maxwell suitable to my 48 YF. Love it.

 

[Glory]

I to am fond of the Ideal, I replaced the line only Ideal W/AC motor, with a Maxwell 2200 24 volt and use all chain.

Working well, use it often, on my 58YF.

JM

 

[GJH]

Has anyone got Ideal's side of the story? They did a great job rebuilding my windlass right before we bought the boat a few years ago, and in supplying me free advice and customer support on some electrical issues and other matters ever since. I think I will forward this guy's posts and see what they have to say for themselves.

Note that we have someone else here on the forum who has had an entirely different experience recently with Ideal:

http://www.samsmarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16271