I think LORAN was just shot again

[egaito]

I THINK, I just heard our esteemed world leader kill LORAN....

An obsolete long range radio location system....."been obsolete for years"...."we have GPS now"....."30m per year to maintain"....

 

[Sparky1]

I don't even own a LORAN anymore, but it doesn't surprise me.

 

[egaito]

I have one, though it's not much good here.

I seem to recall that the last time it was about to be shot, someone proved how easy it was to totally screw up GPS at will, and it was declared an important backup to GPS.

Then came eLORAN...with the promise of new devices and capabilities.

I remember some announcements about R&D going into new eLORAN receivers, and that even GPS devices would eventually use the signals as backup and for correction.

I guess we don't need any backup though, 'cause everyone is going to be our friend now that He's in office.

 

[stormchaser]

Other than a few watermen, who uses it anyway? Almost nobody. Its not like there wasn't an attempt to kill it by the previous administration. If there is as much outcry now as there was then, I'd bet it will be saved again...the problem is...there is little outcry this time...so, if you want to bash the current admin for trying to kill LORAN...you need to also call out the previous admin for doing it.

Also, it is not totally dead...

On February 26, 2009, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) publicly announced the President's Fiscal Year 2010 Budget. In the section for the Department of Homeland Security, the budget "supports the termination of outdated systems such as the terrestrial-based, long-range radionavigation (LOrAN-C) operated by the U.S. Coast Guard

Supports the termination...not requires it. Taken right from the USCG website..In the end, it's up to the CG to determine whether o continue it or not.

And what happened to the right wanting to cut spending and calling out the admin for not doing that? ...damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[egaito]

Other than a few watermen, who uses it anyway? Almost nobody. Its not like there wasn't an attempt to kill it by the previous administration. If there is as much outcry now as there was then, I'd bet it will be saved again...the problem is...there is little outcry this time...so, if you want to bash the current admin for trying to kill LORAN...you need to also call out the previous admin for doing it.

Uh, I did that when it was current news, thank you.

Your statement doesn't make much sense to me....if it was a lot of outcry that saved it last time, as it indeed was, would that outcry not constitute calling the administration out on it? Is this for real, or are you just chumming?

Also, it is not totally dead...

Supports the termination...not requires it. Taken right from the USCG website..In the end, it's up to the CG to determine whether o continue it or not.

And what happened to the right wanting to cut spending and calling out the admin for not doing that? ...damned if you do, damned if you don't.

What lead me to post this thread was not the old news you posted, but the live news conference this AM, where the teleprompter featured this line item as one in the list of cuts they came up with in their "line by line" review.

With all of the crap that is still in that 3.6 TRILLION dollar budget, and all of deficit spending that's going on, I indeed believe we're all damned if "he" do. If you expect me to be in awe, or even mildly impressed, with only 17b in cuts, fuggedaboudit, so you see, nothing has happened to the right wanting to cut spending. Don't even get me started.

Why are all the lefties so darn sensitive......

Now, back on topic....I do believe we need a backup to GPS in the interest of national security, though new boat toys might be a nice side effect. Loran was in place, relatively simple and inexpensive, and with updates planned, for which the R&D is already completed, it would have served well from the accounts I've read. Heck, it probably should have gone into the stimulus...if you want to stimulate something, stick a new technology (eLORAN) out there that the evil private sector can build new products and markets around (like GPS).

Is there an alternativej to backup GPS?

 

[Sparky1]

The alternative is a compass and a chart. Oh yeah, and a length of rope with knots tied in it.

 

[sgharford]

I actually just downloaded a new app for my apple I-touch (like the I-phone, only no phone) this morning. Check out http://www.inavx.net/ . Have not played with it yet as I need wi-fi to download charts, but says it can plot your location based on cell tower and wifi location. It's gotten great reviews and only cost $50. Probably not what you were talking about but thought kind of cool and relevant.

 

[stormchaser]

The alternative is a compass and a chart. Oh yeah, and a length of rope with knots tied in it.

Bingo...never ever leave the slip without paper charts covering everywhere you are going...

 

[egaito]

The alternative is a compass and a chart. Oh yeah, and a length of rope with knots tied in it.

Might work running a one-legged Hatt around the Gulf and up the river ;-), but it's been a long time since pilots used sextants to fly across the pond. How many knots would it take in a line to measure soundings from 35,000 feet?

 

[Sparky1]

How many knots would it take in a line to measure soundings from 35,000 feet?

I was talking about speed measurements... ya big dummy.

 

[stormchaser]

Does LORAN work in planes? I had no idea...

 

[krush]

yup, couple planes I fly still have it, but it's obsolete.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I still have a LORAN receiver. It works well on the Great Lakes. Many fisherman still use it but I rarely even turn mine on.

 

[MikeP]

You can go anywhere in the world with paper charts, a mag compass, and a pair of binoculars....

GPS/chartploting is great but if you leave home without paper charts you are just asking to be an example of modern technology running amuck. Further, you should combine all data into a single unit and no backup to REALLY prove how hi tech you are...

 

[(Nobody You Know)]

If I'm correct, the new eLoran is something that expands the old Loran not only in accuracy, but is more powerful and is not subject to "jamming" by enemy nations as is our vulnerable GPS.

Until tonight, I was under the impression that the gov was seriously considering going forward with this new Loran project.

 

[MarioG]

As much as the conspiracy theory enthusiast enjoy entertaining the idea that someone can disable the gps system with one expert swoop of the keyboard the reality is that the gps system is REALLY hard to make fail in its entirety. Even without gps, Jetliners still fly today without it. Instead they use Inertial Navigation System. It's nothing more than a set of REALLY sensitive accelerometers to track vehicle movement from a known position (lat/long) when programmed prior to movement. Loran is about the same quality when in range.

 

[Beckytek]

I must be the only one to visit this site that doesn't have a GPS, and yes I still have a loran receiver and use it all the time. Ron

 

[spartonboat1]

I have one, though it's not much good here.

I seem to recall that the last time it was about to be shot, someone proved how easy it was to totally screw up GPS at will, and it was declared an important backup to GPS.

Then came eLORAN...with the promise of new devices and capabilities.

I remember some announcements about R&D going into new eLORAN receivers, and that even GPS devices would eventually use the signals as backup and for correction.

I guess we don't need any backup though, 'cause everyone is going to be our friend now that He's in office.

Couple of points: 1) GPS is easily jammed and during the most recent Iragi invasion, Desert Freedom, the US suffered multiple GPS outages. Jamming was from various global locations, by Isamic terrorists. Commercial airlines and others were affected, but it was not widely reported for security purposes. 2) Also, the Feds have studied the cost to shut is down, and it would be very expensive. You can't just shut it down and walk away in today's environment. 3) LORAN cannot be jammed and in a hot war, or if the GPS were all taken out, LORAN would be all that would function.

So antique that it may be, GPS is fragile, while LORAN is not. It should be kept.

 

[Trojan]

They just revamped 9 key military stations. They went on the air 2 years ago. I can't believe that they would just turn them off. They were revamped because as said, they needed a backup for the GPS system.


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