Hynautic Steering - Need Advice

[adt2]

Some Information that might help. The top O-ring replacement is fairly straight forward. Do Not take the unit completely apart.

View attachment 72994View attachment 72995

Caesars Ghost
1980 58YF Hull#472

So which components am I supposed to replace? They include this nice exploded view but no actual information on what to do or how to do it. I'm guessing I'm after the "Seal Kit" group, labeled "A" on the exploded view? Looks like removing the nut (1), washer (2) and screws (24) frees the Front Cover Assembly (3); do I just use something to pry it apart from the Body Spacer (10)?

 

[CGHOST4]

Purchase the Helm Hydraulic Seal Set, (group A). There will be an illustrated parts breakdown included with the seal kit. Carefully lift off the body assembly front cover. DO NOT TAKE THE ENTIRE UNIT APART.
Replace the group A seals and O-ring per the instructions. Replace the front cover. I did not need to replace the O-rings in the helm unit body. If you are not comfortable with this type of rebuild, send the unit in and have it rebuilt by one of the experts recommended in this thread.


Caesars Ghost
1980 58'YF #472

 

[neildeb2]

FWIW, mine leaked out the front of the shaft also. The PO told me I needed to change the o ring every 6 months. I looked at the set up and realized there was excess space where the o ring goes. Not width wise, but depth wise. IOW, there was nothing pressing the o ring in place. It just sat there. So I found some square-corner o rings, and 2 of them fit perfectly in there, with the outer plate applying a tiny bit of pressure against the outer flat of the outside o ring. It worked. I've never had another leak. 4 years and counting. The identical situation existed on my bridge helm. The identical solution resolved it for me. Not a drop. (Past perfor.ance is no predictor of future returns. Your mileage may vary. Do not use iron on any clothes while you are wearing them)

 

[adt2]

Handy tip - thanks for sharing. I'll have a look at that area when I get it ready to reassemble and decide whether I need the same fix. Where'd you find the O-rings?

 

[Captain Ralph]

Kids, Hold on..

Please take this the right way,,,
Some can dive into a project,, Others can not..
And this is cool.. Very cool.. Some just don't deal with lil mechanical issues at that is; o K / cool.

For those that do not want to jump into things themselves, mentioned vendors can do it for you. And that is very cool.
Just please update us if that vendor treated you like they should.

Happy motoring
rc

 

[adt2]

My plan is to ATTEMPT to effect a repair...but if it looks too complicated once I get into it, or if I get the repair completed and the issue isn't resolved, then I will absolutely take advantage of one of the sources listed here and have the work done professionally. I'd like to fix it myself but I'd like functional steering that doesn't leak all over the place even more.

 

[bostonhatteras]

Have you ever broken open a hynautic system? Its a real learning curve if approached uninitiated. I suggest you get actual flare plugs to immediately cap the hydraulic lines once removed, caps for helm unit and caps for lines. The reservoir may say zero psi but you get endless oil flowing out regardless if not capped. Even still you'll need lots of oil absorbent cloths and a helper who can tolerate hearing a lot of swearing. Additionally the bleeding process is NOT something you'll want to do twice. Its a long, again messy, process that will have you turning the wheel endlessly for days perhaps. Sometimes cracking the flare fittings on the respective side may be what's needed to give the bleeding process that push over the top.

 

[adt2]

Well aren't you a ray of pitch black ?

No, I've never broken open a hydraulic pump - which is why I'm willing to give it a go based on feedback here, alongside a healthy dose of "if this seems too hard I'm going to send it in and just write a check." If I CAN fix it, I'd like to figure out how. If not - well, at least I tried.

Regarding bleeding the system...we went through that back in January when we lost steering between NOLA and Houma. Spent a couple of days on a local dock getting the steering cylinder rebuilt, then some leaking hydraulic lines replaced, then bleeding the system. I watched the repair tech do it; I've watched YouTube videos about doing it; I've read the instructions in the Hynautic manual about doing it; and you can be sure, when the time comes, I'll post a question here about doing it (since no two of those sources above did it the same way, lol). I understand the general concept, but the details seem to change from user to user (bleed it at the cylinder! bleed it at the upper helm! don't crack any fittings, just turn the wheels! pressurize to 40! pressurize to 20!).

Finally - we didn't really have much leakage when we disconnected the hydraulic lines at the upper helm. I'd relieved all the pressure at the reservoir several days prior, which stopped the leakage at the shaft, so maybe that helped? We did have *some* leakage, but nothing serious. It dripped for a few minutes, and we just placed an oil diaper underneath it. Stopped dripping before my wife could crawl back out of the flybridge helm (she drew the short straw, lol).

I'm really looking forward to having this issue wrapped up; it's been the most nagging mechanical issue since we bought the boat.

 

[Hat4Shay]

Charlie at Southern Charm in Pinellas Park. =-) He'll do you right! I had to rebuild my upper helm and rudder ram. He did a good job and he's an encyclopdia of knowledge on these old hynautic systems.

 

[rwaldrop13]

Uncle Sam put me thru a series of hydraulic-related schools and classes as well as hands-on on a variety of equipment. That being said, I still would take it slowly and carefully and read every single step before actually taking action.

 

[adt2]

I'd do that if the seal kit came with any instructions. Unfortunately all you get is a bag of O-rings and an exploded view.

 

[Captain Ralph]

Funny observation;
You may have already received your helm pump back from one of the mentioned shops by now.
You could be mobile,, already..

Lets go water skiing, You go first..

 

[adt2]

Yeah but then I'd be no smarter...just broke-er.

If I can't figure it out I'll send it in. We're not planning on leaving the dock again until June, so I've got plenty of time.

 

[adt2]

OK, I have good news and weird news. And a couple of questions.

First the good news: the disassembly was a piece of cake. Mostly. Two of the threaded studs are frozen, but I ordered some replacements this morning along with some new stainless cap nuts so it will all look snazzy when it goes back together. I think I have a small issue with the disassembly, but I will get to that in a moment.

Next the weird news: I seem to be missing a component. According to the exploded view, there is a thrust bearing sandwiched between two plates. I am missing one of those plates. I am not sure if it is the thick plate or the thin plate, but I used a pair of calipers to measure it so I can contact the manufacturer and order the correct replacement part. The plate I do have is installed below the thrust bearing.

And now for the questions: first, the seal kit as drawn in the exploded view includes three O-rings, but there are only two O-rings on my current setup. I suspect the third O-ring goes inside the part marked with the red arrow, but I cannot figure out how to remove that part from the shaft. or possibly, it goes where the green arrow is drawn, installed from the back side… Any tips?

Next, when we removed the pump from the bulkhead, there was a thin piece of material between the two. I hesitate to call it a gasket, because it seems to be made of some sort of thick, waxed paper. It’s fairly chewed up, and that part is not shown in any of the drawings I have. Anyone have any idea what it might be for? Am I OK to reinstall the pump without it? Or should I try to find some similar material and homebrew a new one?

 

[jmooney]

These pumps disassemble from the rear if you want to get to all the parts .

 

[IOLANI]

Just thought I'd pass along an interesting find. My lower helm suddenly began hemorrhaging fluid from the front shaft seal. I was preparing to remove it and ship it off to have new seals installed when I noticed a post in this thread about the pressure affecting the seal. Sure enough if I keep the pressure at 20 psi or above it doesn't leak a drop. Let it drop down to the 15psi range and it bleeds out fluid again.
I'm guessing the lip seals are old and the added pressure keeps them tight enough to hold.

I'll be happy to make it through the season and then remove and repair during the winter.

 

[Captain Ralph]

I'll be happy to make it through the season and then remove and repair during the winter.

Not a great poker hand, but if your not traveling far, have extra fluid and oil-sorbs on board, play it out.

 

[IOLANI]

Not a great poker hand, but if your not traveling far, have extra fluid and oil-sorbs on board, play it out.

I would agree Capt Ralph but we are basically liveaboards for the summer months not venturing out more than a few hours ride and then back to the slip. The old "three hour tour" lol .

 

[rsmith]

I don’t know if it’s been brought up but the. Area between the wiper seal and the main seal can develop corrosion and pitting. My FB helm has corrosion there. I smoothed it out with Emory paper but the seal only lasts about a year. I found a used helm with a good shaft and replaced it. If the shaft is bad it will leak even with new seals

 

[IOLANI]

I don’t know if it’s been brought up but the. Area between the wiper seal and the main seal can develop corrosion and pitting. My FB helm has corrosion there. I smoothed it out with Emory paper but the seal only lasts about a year. I found a used helm with a good shaft and replaced it. If the shaft is bad it will leak even with new seals

Scott. Can that front seal be easily replaced from the front side without disassembling any further ?