How accurate is NADA boat value on a 1970 53' Motor Yacht

[douglasl]

I'm in play to buy a 1970 53' Hatteras Motor Yacht in California. Boat has been for sale for at least 6 months.

NADA says retails at $45,750 (I wish!)
Survey says Estimated Market Value $175,000. (seems a bit high for the area, California)

This would be my first motor yacht purchase. I've owned smaller boats in the past. I know, I know, a boat is a money hole in the water; but, apart from losing value every year, the regular maintenance, dock fees, what would be a fair price for this boat.
I've included the major repair recommendations below. Other minor ones were tag extinguisher, new flares, and the usual small bits. Boat appears clean.

Thanks,

Douglas

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last survey done by Brendan J. Schmidt on Dec. 2013.
3 cabins,
2 - Detroit Diesel V8 350HP (8va) engines, 326 and 319 hours on each.
2 - 250 gal diesel tanks (500gal total)
Beta Marine generator 12Kva, 132 hrs
287 gal fresh water tank.
DC windlass
Avon rib with Johnson 15HP outboard. (see notes below)
Auto pilot: Raymarine ST8002, Raymarine RL80C,
VHF: Standard Eclipse Icom IC M125
SatNav: Raymarine RL80C, Furuno GPS Plotter GP 1801,
Depth sounder: Furuno FCV 620, Ray Marine ST60+, Ray Marine Tridata (Bridge cartography dated 1996)

No Sea Trial or Running Engines done.

Repair recommendations:
1. Marine air conditioning port aft guest stateroom did not heat.
2. rust and scale developing on the aft end of starboard engine inner exhaust manifold.
3. bilge pump forward of the genset did not engage with its float when tested.
4. standing water below starboard battery banks. acid damaged wood noted below the port banks.
5. mold developing along the lower perimeter of the aft bridge seat within its storage area.
6. elevated moisture levels detected on the bridge deck along the outer perimeter areas of the bridge attachment.
7. water damage & delamination noted at the threshold areas of the wing doors as well as the cabin entry doors port and starboard.
8. deck core delamination noted at the port & starboard corners of the trunk cabin to foredeck areas.
9.corrosion noted at base of windlass. deck core in this area compressed.
10.corrosion evidence of past leaking noted around port and starboard forward portlights.
11. impact damage noted. starboard side weater board amidships.
12. marginal wear noted at port and starboard main strut bearing.
13. bottom paint is spent.
14. few small random blisters on hull bottom.
15. contamination noted in the Racor fuel filters.
16. dinghy outboard is heavily corroded and Rib is partially deflated.
17. clear plastic windows of the bridge enclosure are sun damaged, deteriorating and torn in areas.
18. topsides paint is failing, starboard aft quarter area.

 

[saltshaker]

NADA is useless for most larger boats. 175K seems very optimistic but age isn't nearly as important as condition and equipment. $45,750 would be way to high for some of the tired neglected or abused ones that are out there. Post the listing and some details and you should get some decent replies to help you establish value. Any recent comps of boats someone can verify condition would be helpful to you.

 

[Boatsb]

NADA is best used for a coaster or to level a table. The book is useless as Jack said.

You need to get someone you trust to guide you. A buyers broker or a private appraiser who can go over the boat properly and compare it to similar vessels that sold in the area.

 

[douglasl]

Hi Jack,

Thanks for the tip. The listing is here:

yachtworld.com/boats/1971/Hatteras-Motor-Yacht-2673845/Alameda/CA/United-States#.VPEVCvnF8mB


Thanks to anyone that can give me their opinion and assistance.

Douglas

 

[Glory]

Even if that $47K was an average, how much was the lowest sale?

Hardly a good reference.

JM

 

[douglasl]

Hi JM,

Yes, we're getting to the point that the NADA boat values for large vessels is a gimmicky number. Not based on anything good.

Now, as to what would be a fair price for this 53' MY listed at $179K with the recommended repairs from the survey in Dec. 2013....? How much do you subtract from the fair value for the repairs?

I just heard from the broker. The boat has been for sale longer than 1 year. He said "about 1 year ago they got an offer for $175K, and the seller declined."

I'm not wanting to go up to that much ($175K), but what would be a fair offer and get this boat a new home?

Thanks,

Douglas

 

[nor'easter]

All of that work, if it was really done and done well, doesn't add to the value of the boat. It is all catch up on deferred or ignored maintenance items. Now if a tasteful interior refit/soft goods/electronics/added gear that you want has also been done...that might make it worth more, but only if it is gear you want that you don't have to re-do. If that brings the boat to cherry, then you have to sort out what it is worth to you, and pay no more than that.

I think an impartial broker or a marine professional that you can have inspect her for/with you will be very valuable in this situation.

 

[Tim Powell]

Hi Jack,

Thanks for the tip. The listing is here:

yachtworld.com/boats/1971/Hatteras-Motor-Yacht-2673845/Alameda/CA/United-States#.VPEVCvnF8mB


Thanks to anyone that can give me their opinion and assistance.

Douglas

here you go
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...2673845/Alameda/CA/United-States#.VPUDiSfFblY

 

[Glory]

I would suggest, when a seller declines a sale for 2.3% less than asking price and the deal fails, the broker was not looking at the big picture.

The broker, should have made that deal happen, unless the seller never intended to sell in the first place.

JM

 

[Freeebird]

here you go
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...2673845/Alameda/CA/United-States#.VPUDiSfFblY

"Owner has mentioned over $200,000 in upgrades"?

Did he happen to mention what they were or mention receipts? That's a strange comment to make on a brokerage listing.

 

[tom5518]

6. elevated moisture levels detected on the bridge deck along the outer perimeter areas of the bridge attachment.

8. deck core delamination noted at the port & starboard corners of the trunk cabin to foredeck areas.

9.corrosion noted at base of windlass. deck core in this area compressed.

Quoted above are the things that would concern me the most and will have to be dealt with some day. The survey is also over one year old and things only get worse with time, especially rotting core. To fix the rotting core correctly in the hardtop, the flybridge has to be removed. You easily could be looking at over $50k for just that one fix. Is that something that you are ready to deal with?

My gut tells me it is an $80-$100k boat at the most. If you start deducting for fixes found during the survey, you might wind up with a negative value. I doubt the owner is going to pay money for someone to buy it, he would probably laugh at a $100k offer. The big question is how badly do you want to go boating with this boat? There isn't a thing wrong with over paying for it and spending a lot of money to make her right as long as you know what you are getting yourself into and accept the fact that you will still have a boat that might bring $80-100k when you decide to sell it.

My opinion only. I could be wrong.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I think you ought to keep looking and find a boat in better shape, unless the current owner decides to open his eyes and wake up. This sounds like a 60-70K vessel on a GOOD day, to me.

 

[douglasl]

Thank you all for the info. Would anyone here have access to what Hatteras 53' MYs have been selling for in the West Coast?

I don't know local brokers well enough, and they give me the run around of the latest sales. Like if they have no way of finding out. I know they have a computer system where they have that database, plus the famous "book". I just don't have access to it.

If, and when I do make an offer, I don't want to just place an embarrassingly low offer. I've never been one to take advantage of others. I just want to make a fair offer for the value. If the fair value is low, then that's what it is. This would also help me if I keep looking for other Hatteras MYs. That is pretty much the layout and boat type that I like.

Douglas

 

[nor'easter]

Any broker can pull that data for you from sold boats but the data is suspect at best. In addition, there are very few of these boats that sell or are for sale on the west coast. I am going through the process on a 52 and there are 4 for sale on the entire west coast, been on 3 of them. Only a couple have sold in the last few years and i dont think that is very helpful trying to figure "comps".

 

[SEVEN]

Is this the 53 in Alameda? Call me I have info on it. I was trying to buy it myself. 650-619-2308. Rusty

 

[douglasl]

Hi Rusty,

Thanks for taking my call and clearing some of my doubts. Yes, it is the one in Alameda.

I'm expecting a call from the broker, tomorrow, and I'll see what other info I can get from him.

Douglas

 

[rtrafford]

Heads up...a vessel of that age with remarks of moisture and corrosion at base of windlass screams to me of, beyond the obvious, bonding issues. With bad bonding the first thing to go is the AC system, and that gets expensive very quickly. Look very closely with a trained and intelligent eye.

 

[jim rosenthal]

There IS a database called "Sold Boats", and brokers access it by subscription, but the data in "sold boats" can be off for several reasons- inaccurate reporting, too few numbers, or trade deals which make the numbers inaccurate. For models that have a lot of hulls out there and that sell quickly, I think it is helpful. For 1980s 53 MYs on the West Coast, maybe not so much. But better than nothing if you can find it.

It might be worth trying to approach this a little differently- see if you can find a broker who will give you selling prices on boats of that kind that closed all over the USA and see if there are enough numbers there to make a meaningful data set. Perhaps you don't have to correct for the West Coast at all.

 

[Ross Macdonald]

Back in the day we flew up from San Diego to look at a 53 Hatt that this guy Boland had listed. It was a total disaster and he totally misrepresented the boat. I would look for a boat listed with another broker if possible. The same 53 is now in San Diego and looks worse than it did a few years ago. Look carefully at the pictures and then the description. One head has a Raritan crown head, another has a PH II Raritan with an electric motor. He described them as toilets (another red flag) of a totally different manufacturer. Also any time you see that much overspray on engine hoses and that much corrosion in an engine room, multiply problems down there times ten. And that's just the engine room. No pictures of the generator room either. I would guess it's even worse. My two cents worth is walk away from this one.....Ross

 

[capttonyf]

According to "Sold Boats" on Yachtworld. I ran a search for you, from 1/1/2012 Thru 04/2015. There have been 88, 53 Hatteras Sold between the ages of 1969 and 1990. Of those sold,,12 of either the 53MY or 53YF have been sold in California. Here's the list

Ask Sold Name
1978 199.500 179,500 No Name
1985 229,000 200,000 No Name
1977 199,000 150,000 No Name
1980 139,000 115,000 CA VA Bien
1977 99,000 85,000 Chart Maker
1973 125,00 90,000 Downstream
1973 134,500 114,500 Pacific Journey
1983 219,000 205,000 Lady Hawke
1978 189,900 178,000 Champagne Jam
1979 199,000 171,500 Carlotta II
1988 219,875 190,000 Kelly Anne
1979 189,000 150,000 No Name

As you can see they're all over the board depending on condition. These boat if new are 2 Million Dollar Boats today. Therefore repair costs if you don't do it yourself and don't have the parts are repairs equivalent to a 2 million dollar boat repair if done properly. That's why a boat in nice shape is worth over double a clapped out version. To do a major repair on a tired old girl doesn't make sense sometimes that's why some are so cheap. If you find a nice one, and it's what you want. Pay what it's worth to you. Maintaining a 50+ foot boat cost the same if you spent 200K or 2 Million so dont pinch pennies on the purchase if one is really nice because if you try to save "Money " buying a cheaper boat. You end up spending more to keep it then to buy it. As a matter of fact, even a nice boat, to keep it nice. After a few years of Dockage, Yard Bills, an Engine issue or two, normal Maintenence, Fuel, and a pay check to a captain/mate. If your not hands on and there everyday cleaning and polishing etc. It cost you what you bought the boat for just to keep it. It's not the case when you pay 2 Million for a 53 ft boat but when you pay 200K for a 53 ft Boat the purchase price is your cheapest expense if you want to keep it yacht condition.

We Have a Hatteras 45C and this past year maintenence was very minimal. That being said 2013 we spent just in motor and yard work nearly $30,000. Now this year we're about to do the bottom again and replace the tower, half tower canvas, and a few misc. other things. It adds up quicker than you think... My point of this is get what you want, pay a fair price and don't try to cut corners buying a boat that's less money but needs a lot of work. You'll end up paying more in he long run.

Hope this helps.

Any broker out there that couldn't take 10 minutes to get you this info or better yet doesn't know how the find it is useless. Not a true Broker that knows what he's doing. Sounds more like a retiree that's bored with nothing to do so decided one day he I like to fich off my John Boat in the lake I should becaome a Yacht broker. Like any profession, there are good brokers and there are total Jokers out there just playing the part.

Tony