HELP! Feul tank picup plate cracked.

[Liquid Asset]

I went out in the boat today and a few minutes after we left the aft bilge kicked on. I didn't think anything of it except it kicked on again. I went down and checked and there was diesel in the bilge, and a good bit of it. I checked the other side of the lazarette and it was coming off of the top of the tank. After starting to investigate i found that the pickup on the rear tank for the genset had cracked on the 90 degreee fitting that comes out of the tank. The bronze had broken off. Since somone had previously connected the genset to the forward tank it was not an issue with it running, but it was leaking fuel because I filled up yesterday and had a full tank.

I tried to pull the plate off of the top of the tank with the pickups for both motors and the genset, but the screws dont seem like they have been removed for over 20 years. I dont want to break the screws off and I also dont want to strip them since they are common head screws. They also appear to be bronze. I was thinking about using an impact screwdriver to loosen the screws but again dont want to cause a problem. I have no idea what is underneath the plate for attaching it to the tank and I dont want to crack the fiberglass. since It will be difficult to repair.

The other problem is that I dont know how to repair the plate, or if sams would have another one. Does anyone have any ideas. I can fix this if I get some more information and some suggestions, but I dont want to make my problem worse and ther is 700 gallons of diesel in the tank. If it came down to it, I could fabricate, or have a plate fabricated, but since I have no Idea what is underneath the plate and how the pickups are configured it is hard to make speculations.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Nonchalant1]

Is this a Hatteras? If it's a Hatteras fiberglass tank, that big bronze plate is actually galssed into the top of the tank when it is made. The screwheads that go around it were put in there to hold the plate as it was being glassed in, and they won't come out.

It sounds like you have a broken elbow fitting that goes into that bronze plate. If so, you can unscrew the fitting and replace it with a new one. Call Steve Mc Phereson at Sams to discuss first.

If it's not just a fitting, you gotta "'splain it better".

Doug Shuman

P.S. Thank God you didn't have a gasoline powered boat!

 

[Liquid Asset]

This is a Hatteras with the fiberglass tanks. It is a 1982 50C.

So If I understand you correctly, the screws around the outside of the metal plate are actually glassed into he tank and will not come out? So that means the bronze plate has teh pickups screwed into it? It does not appear that the picups are screwed in, it appears they are part of the plate.

Since this broke off so close to the plate it may be hard to get the threaded part out if it is actually screwed in as oposed to being part of the plate.

I attached a picture of the broken part.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

You may have to find an "easy-out" big enough to go into what is left of that fitting.

 

[Liquid Asset]

So you are telling me that the pickup is screwed in to the metal plate and the elbow is part of the pickup? I guess i am not sure what yall are saying.

 

[spartonboat1]

Re: HELP! Feul tank picup plate cracked./Plate #2

I believe there is a sister plate under the external plate and both are glassed to the tank...this is the same configuration as is found on the black water/holding tanks.

Ifsofar as removing the fitting, I had a similar fitting break on a holding tank and a very experienced tech was able to remove the broken section with an ez-out to use the phrase above...since EZ out is a brand name I think. But ez outs are inserted into the broken fitting and have a large left handed thread...the more you load it the more it grips. P.s., my fitting had been broken off well before I bought the boat, so I was impressed that it could be removed.

Get a good Hatt or big boat tech and they should have it out in no time. P.s. 2, get the original replacement fitting from Sams if you can is my recommendation FWIW...

 

[Nonchalant1]

Pat,

If it's like mine, I believe that fitting is screwed into the bronze plate. Get a knife and scrape away all of the built up paint where the fitting goes into the plate and I think you'll see the line. (Honey, can I borrow your good Wusthoff knife?) Then spray liberally with PB Blaster and wait overnight or longer. Then use a big pipe wrench against the elbow fitting, with the wrench as close as you can get it to the plate. It also may be possible to buy a new bronze pipe elbow exactly like the one you have from Ace Hardware. I know that'd be far too simple, but sometimes they have them.

This is one you can't use heat to loosen it up

Doug Shuman

 

[Liquid Asset]

ok, if this is just an elbow and it is threded into the plate how do you remove the pickup itself? I can not put a pipe wrench on what is left of the elbow because there is hardly any. The only chance I have is an easy out, but I dont know if that will go into th pickup too far and hang up.

Please give me some more Ideas on removing the entire plate if it is possible.

 

[Nonchalant1]

We'all are saying that the fitting is screwed into the plate from the top and that there's something under there that holds the actual pickup tube. If you're at the boat, can you post a picture of the top of the plate with whatever's left at the hole? If you look down in there, it seems like you'd see the top of whatever's holding the pickup tube against the bottom of the plate. If so, can you see a line where the end of the broken elbow is screwed into a threaded adapter? I'd still scrape all the paint away and look for a line indicating a screwed in fitting.

To get that plate out you'd have to empty the tank and cut the plate out, which will destroy it, and maybe part of the tank too. That's why I think the fitting is screwed into whatever is holding the pickup tube onto the bottom of the tank. Do everything you can try before trying to get the plate out.

For the holding tanks, it's a bronze fitting with threads on the top and the bottom. The top elbow screws into the top and the pickup tube screws into the bottom. However, those holding tank fittings can be seen from the top of the tank because they're bigger than the pipes that are screwed into them.

Doug

 

[captddis]

The plates can be removed but Don't do it except as a last resort. You will loose the bottom threaded plate. And yes the screws usually break off. The pickup tube is brazed into the elbow. If you are lucky it is a return fitting. If not get a good ez out. Snap on makes some really good ez outs that bite in 360 degrees as opposed to the ones that just catch on the corners.

 

[Liquid Asset]

Ok, Here are some pictures of the plate on top of the tank.

Let me know what you think.

It looks as if it is not screwed on, but the elbows from the engine pickups look lie they are screwed on. I guess I will have to get an easy out... I dont have source for SnapOn tools, but I can possibly get one somewhere hopefully.

CaptDis, I think I see where the pickup is brazed into the elbow. How do you put it in the new elbow? Can you get the old one out, or do you have to make a new pickup?

 

[Eufaula]

I would not open or mess with the plate, means more work. But, with an ez-out to fit the st/ell that broken off hope you can drive the ez-out far down enough to grab and spin the broken pice out. I think the pick up tube should not be a problem you can (not sure) but , seem like you can have it braze on the new replacement st/ell you will be installing. Using the ez-out tap with a hammer and gently with pressure from the palm of your hand push down on the st/ell and turn the ez-out,(acc) again gently. Do not let it spin in there, so with penetrating oil and wait a few hours and with pressure from your hand of course you will need a rag on top of the ez-out and gently turn with a adj. wrench it will come out and a new in. Good luck James.

 

[Eufaula]

Pat, what you are holding looks like a regular bronze street/ell lets hope it comes out of the plate with an ez-out. Lots of good penetrating oil and ez-out for do it yourself guys like us on the market nowadays..

 

[Liquid Asset]

Yes, It does look like a normal bronze street elbow. That is what worried me when it broke off. I really could not tell how it was in there. The pickups for the engines have a flange on them that appears to keep them from being screwed in to far.

This pickup looks to be in the origional location based on the plumbing from the genset. All I can figure is tha tif it is not the origional pickup, but in the origional locaiont it was not put back correctly. I dont know why a bronze fitting would crack and break off like that except fot the thought it was not as strong as it should have been in the first place

I was planning on waiting untill winter to re-do the fuel system, but I guess that I may have to move that up a little closer to the front of the list. I think it is beginning to show its age

 

[Trojan]

What size is the fitting. If you use an EZ out and its to long. It can be cut off. but don't purchase a cheap one. Make sure it is made of good tool steel and get someone that can cut it without losing the steel temper.You need a small cutoff wheel. I've cut off many. Snap-on or MAC. It's hard to see in the pictures but it looks more like a return than a feed. If it was a feed I would think it would suck air. A return would leak big time. They break from not supporting the tubing connected to them. Or there is no vibration loop. They won't take the flexing. Bill

 

[Liquid Asset]

It is definetly the feed for the generator, but it is not used right now. I have plans to hook it back up. Durring repair when we purchased the boat, the marina could not get the genset to run off the rear tank, so they moved the pickup hose to the front tank where there was another pickup for the genset. I had not had time to investigate that and was not seeing any fuel. Now I think the genset was sucking air because of a cracked fitting. Guess I have to pray I can get it out. I am not thinking this one will be easy.

 

[Hows Hatt]

As part of my project, I have completely removed the fuel tank from my Hatt (28SF) and have been able to turn the tank every which way and have done every thing but crawl inside the tank. I have removed both the fuel pick-up plate and the fuel fill plate from my tank and have dis-assembled all of the attendant pieces with the exception of the interior backing plates for the screws. The suggestion of using an EZ-out should work. The pick-up tube is soldered to the bottom side of the street-el (elbo w/ one male end and one female end) and will come out with the elbo remnant. I can post a photo if it would help you. Should the EZ-out not work, the entire plate is removable though not designed to be. Steve at Sam's and the Hatteras customer service wizards were both very helpful. If you would like a pic, let me know. Good luck. Howard in Michigan

 

[Nonchalant1]

How to wait until winter

Due to the bronze fitting and the constant diesel oil on the threads over the years, you may find that it comes out more easily than you expect. I took a 28 year old bronze fuel gauge sender out of my fuel tank's bronze plate and the threads looked like new.

If you want a temporary solution, maybe you can get a good quality expansion plug from a hardware store. They are a stainless steel bolt and heavy rubber plug in many sizes. You just by a size that fits close and tighten the bolt from the top, expanging the rubber plug to fit almost any hole. It should hold for a long, long time. I fixed a hole in a jet ski hull with one and it held forever, even with water rushing past at 30 MPH it and hard bouncing against the waves.

Doug

 

[34Hatt]

I have removed my plates in a 1967 they all came out! I also know of other old hatts that removed them with no problems. It is a bronze plate with bronze srews with another bronze ring inside held in place with a couple of flat head screws. I know that mine have never been off because I needed to chiesel I little piece of the floor support to get it out. Just give them a try and don't use a lot of muscle you should find them to easy loosing.

 

[Liquid Asset]

I tried to loosen the screws, but I had no success. They are on there good. I was able to get a few to turn, but was afraid I would break them. If it comes down to it, I will get them out, but I would prefer not to remove the plate. I purchased some easy outs and I will be trying those this evening.