Hatteras Bridge "Engine Room" light

[Liquid Asset]

I had the fire safetly inspection done on my fire extinguishers this last week and I had them test the CO2 system in the engine room. He said the system was working fine, but I had him trip the system so that it would show it had been discharged and it did not turn on the light in the flybridge and show a fire. BUT, when I press the test switch the light iluminates like it is soposed to. Any one have any Ideas? I am not familiar with the monitoring system on the boat. It has a buzzer, but it does not go off when the Test swithc is depresed. Can you all explain how it should work and if yall have any ideas why it is not working?

Thanks

 

[hatteras45]

Pat, If your system is like mine it will have a normally open pressure switch on the gas cylinders. There are 2 wires connected to the switch. One is ground and the other should go to the alarm system, (light or horn). When the system discharges because of heat or fire the pressure in the cylinder drops and the normally open switch closes and completes a ground circuit to the alarm system. You can jumper or short out this switch with a small wire to test it. Also check the system for positive voltage at the light or horn. I hope this helps Stan

 

[Nonchalant1]

Mine has a completely separate box that's on the CO2 delivery pipe 3 ft. away from the tank. It's a red box, about 4" X 4" with a pop-up switch on top. When the CO2 is released, the pressure in the pipe pops the switch and the switrch is wired to your helm station alarm. You can test that type of alarm by pulling up on the pop-up. The alarm will sound and you just push it back down to reset it.

Doug Shuman

 

[Beckytek]

On my system, there are 2 lights one is green and the other is red. The green light should be on at all times to show the system is working. The red light comes on for system override. The test switch is used to test the system. On mine the test button will shut down the engines and sound an alarm. You have to have the engines running to check it. The override switch alows you to start the engines and run them even during an alarm condition. I tested mine and it works perfectly. I also installed a switch in series with the green light so I can turn it off when I'm away. It connects directly to the battery and there is no way to turn it off. Naturally it was burned out when I got the boat. Ron

 

[Genesis]

I tore out my CO2 system and put in a FE241 system after I discovered during my survey that the CO2 actuator was trashed - I already knew the cylinder would fail hydro from its appearance (and it was out of date, so a hydro was required too)

The FE241 system requires an engine shutdown relay set, which I added, along with a bridge panel. The panel has a horn for discharge indication and a green light for "ok".

There's also an override switch, which is necessary to be able to restart if the system fires or is electrically inoperable.

It shuts down both mains and the genset if it goes off automatically. The "gotcha" is that the relay box is active powered, which means that if you lose DC bridge power off go your engines and genset! There is a simple override for the mains (its only active with the ignition keys on - so turn the ignition keys off!) the way I've wired it, so its possible for me to immediately restart in the event of a fault in the wiring or loss of power to the bridge circuits - the genset requires a bit more effort to bypass the shutdown, but its less critical than the mains.

 

[Liquid Asset]

ok, The buzzer does not do anything on my system when I pull up on the "Test" swithch. All of the lights iluminate, but thats all.

When I push down on the switch, it iluminates the lights, but does not make a buzzing sound either.

Does this system have a circuit board that contorls it? I do not know anything about this system.

How does it know that there is an engine oil pressure problem, or an overheat? other than the sensors, it must know something?

THe othere thing that does not work is the "AC power failure" light. But I think that has to do with the genset being replaced before we purchased the boat. The buzzers dont work on the pannel in the salon either.

Is this system soposed to shut down the engines when I have a fire? How do I find out if it does?

Sorry for all the questions, I am really confused and the Hatteras manual is not very clear on this pannel

 

[Genesis]

If its a CO2 system it will shut down the engines all on its own - no shutdown system is required.

 

[captddis]

Above the CO2 cylinder there should be a red box that says 'KIDDE" on it. On that box there is a silver button, Either push or pull it and it should sound the alarm. I t will also not allow the engines to crank. If you have the factory halon system that is a little different. It has two cylinders, that SHUTS down the engines then discharges.FWIW Hatteras has the most comprehensive owners manual , all this info is in it. Dave

 

[Nonchalant1]

There are different types of alarm panels and systems on different boats. We don't know what type you have.

Is there a panel at your lower helm station with lights, alarm buzzer and a "test" knob?

Does it say "Crozier" on it?

Are there just 4 lights (temp, oil pressure, high water and fire) or are there more?

Where is the switch you're pulling and pushing?

Be careful of what you pull on the tank valve. Mine has a manual release pin on it and if it goes off while you're in the engine room and you can't get out quickly, it can kill you just like it kills fire.

Doug

 

[Liquid Asset]

I have included a picture of the pannel on the dash. Please excuse the poor picture as it was taken with my old camera. There are 4 lights a buzzer and a switch. Each light has a fuse under it. Hope this can help you help me.

 

[captddis]

guess it is a earlier model with the 4 pt system. Much simpler no circut boards just a few resistors. Try the set/ reset switch. then check wiring or jump at the panel. check the fuseholders carefully and ohm out the 1 amp fuses

 

[Liquid Asset]

When I depress the test switch, should the buzzer sound? It does not.

The light iluminates when I press the test switch, but that is all. When the Fire System Repairman was there, he set the system to show discharged so that It would iluminate the light, but it did not. We also looked, and the wires are connected.

 

[captddis]

Does the light come on when the wires are jumped. the light and horn/ buzzer should sound. If not check for continuity between the er switch and bridge.

 

[Liquid Asset]

I will try that. What do the resistors do on the back of the 4pt monitor? Should I check any of them for continuity?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Karl,
Why would you switch to FE241? If you have a runaway, isn't the CO2 system the safest way to stop it? You don't have to get near the engine and risk having it fly apart while you are trying to shut it down. I know that it is a large tank and it takes up room, but it seems that with Detroits, CO2 would give more "peace of mind" than the FE241. ....or am I missing something?

 

[Genesis]

Yes - on the 45C the stock location for the bottle sucks rocks (its right in the aft bilge water accumulation point!) and you CANNOT trip a CO2 can if you're in the bilge to stop a runaway - do that and YOU may die - further, if you DO use that method when you're NOT in the engine room you may be buying a new engine anyway (its NOT healthy to stop a diesel this way, although it will stop.)

There is no other rational place to put the size bottle necessary on the 45C. In addition the heat sensors for CO2 systems are notoriously fickle and difficult to accurately test - if they don't fire when you need them to you're screwed. For this reason on a CO2 system a manual pull is a MUST-HAVE, and yet IT has dangers too (like being pulled accidentally!)

The FE241 unit I got was very cheap (sold to me uninstalled and happened to be the right size), it requires NO actuator network (its a heat capsule much like a sprinkler head - absolutely failsafe and reliable) and its MUCH smaller and thus can be mounted up high enough that there's no chance for it to get wet. It is also a 10 minute job to remove it to weigh, which is all you need to do recertify it (plus look at the gauge) - if the weight is good and the gauge is green you're golden.

In the event of fire, ok, put the damn thing out - obviously. But a fuel-fed runaway is best stopped with a fuel shutoff, which I have. A lube-oil pullover runaway is going to be bad news no matter how you handle it - there's simply no way around this one - and it also shouldn't happen unless you let maintenance get away from you.

A replacement CO2 actuator and new bottle would have cost me more than the FE241 system did.

 

[Liquid Asset]

The CO2 system I have is soposed to have 2 35lb bottles, BUT, somewhere along the way somone removed one a caped the intake to the manifold. I am guessing that it did not pass certification and in place of buying a new bottle they just left it out. I am trying to find a bottle right now, but I have not been able to yet. Unfortunetly when they did this, they removed the bracket and the hose from the tank to the manifold.

The problem wih not having the bottle is that my engine room is 1200 cubic feet and it needs the other bottle to safely put out a fire.

Hatteras was smart in the way they did the manual pull it is in a spot that is not easy to trip because you would not bump into it in the corner. It also has a plastic cover that you must break to pull the manual deploy switch.

If yall know of a 35lb bottle, let me know, I will be willing to buy it. I just got all this information last week. If have found it very hard to find somone to come out and do a fire inspection on a yacht in our area.

 

[MikeP]

I was under the impression that an automatic engine shut-off is CG required to be incorporated into automatic fire systems on diesel engine-equipped boats. As others have mentioned, our 53 MY's CO2 system has one as part of the oem system - if the fire system is activated, there is a pressure switch that shuts down the main engines and genny immediately. I assume it activates the shut-down solenoids but I haven't actually checked - I don't know what else it could do since the fuel pumps are mechanical.

It is my understanding that the auto engine shut-off is necessary for diesels because they can suck the fire suppressent agent right out of the engine compartment, allowing the fire to continue. Although the CO2 (or whatever) can shut eventually down the engine, if the fire occurs at cruise and the system discharges, the engines will be pulling enough air flow to possibly reduce the concentration of suppresent enough to allow the fire to continue. The engines may stop but without an automatic shutdown, by the time they do, there may not be sufficient CO2 left to ensure the fire is put out and stays out. Again, this is my understanding; I am no fire system expert by any means.

 

[Genesis]

Shutdown systems are mandatory on FE241 (or Halon) systems because diesels will EAT those extinguishing agents and run quite happily onward!

Gas engines will be shut down by FE241 and Halon because their combustion mechanism is impacted sufficiently to "put them out".

On a CO2 system they are not mandatory because a CO2 system will smother a diesel just as it will a gas boat (or you) In fact, a legitimate means of shutting down a runaway diesel engine is the intentional discharge of a handheld CO2 extinguisher down the intake. This may cause severe engine damage due to shock cooling but it beats an engine coming apart due to overspeed or exhaustion of lubricating oil.

Its a matter of different mechanisms to put out the fire. CO2 works by displacing the oxygen, plus the CO2 release produces extreme adiabatic cooling (remember the fire quadrangle - heat, fuel, oxidizer and chemical reaction?)

CO2 disrupts two of those - heat and the oxidizer concentration. Unfortunately it also disrupts the O2 content YOU need to survive; below 16% O2 you're in deep kimchee (you will pass out in seconds) and below 11% you're dead. If a CO2 system discharges and you're in the room GET OUT FAST - you literally have seconds before you're finished unless you have an alternative air supply. CO2 releases also tend to produce "white-out" conditions (zero visability) due to the formation of ice crystals (both dry ice and from the water vapor in the air) when they discharge. You need quite a bit of CO2 in terms of cubic feet to do the job - you need to reach a concentration of 30-60% CO2 in the protected room in order to insure the fire goes out. CO2 is also heavier than air; this is part of why it works so well but it is extremely dangerous in enclosed-bottom spaces (like the bilge of a boat!) for the same reason.

Halon/FE241 disrupts the chemical reaction but does not appreciably change the other three aspects of a fire. For this reason it is known as a "clean agent" because it does not produce shock cooling nor does it "smother" the fire. The concentration necessary to do this is quite low - much lower than that of CO2 necessary to smother a fire. In theory it also won't smother you, although you still don't want to be in there when it goes off. The problem with Halon/FE241 is that on a compression-ignition engine it will not interfere with its operation substantially and when running the engine will simply suck through all the extinguishing agent and keep going happily along - and so will the fire!

Also be aware that Halon/FE241 can decompose into phosgene-like compounds under extreme fire conditions even as it puts the fire out. Those byproducts are LETHAL - even though the agent itself isn't very hazardous to people in its original form.