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Going to bed for the summer....

  • Thread starter Thread starter bobk
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Good luck with your treatment!
I use bio bor but anything that will prevent algae will work. If your not going to be able to mix it in with a fill up I'd mix it in a5 gal can of fuel and dump it in.

X2 on the biobor jf. Been using that exclusively for years and no clogged filters ever.
Best wishes on the treatment.
 
Especially since adding lubricity cost money. I don't think they add what they should.

You know what they say. It all has to meet a certain ASTM specification. Does it? Who knows. If it does, is that really enough lubrication? Probably not.
 
Here is a copy and paste on rejuvinating old diesel. From antique modeler or something like that.


If the lid has not been properly tightened and sealed on a container of diesel fuel that has been opened and stored for a long time the ether content will evaporate, causing some hard starting problems. The following procedure will restore your fuel to like-new attributes..
Get some John Deere tractor starting fluid in a can. The can indicates 80% ether and 7 ounces. I get about 8 ounces when finished. I hold the can upside down and spray out the propellant. Then I place in the freezer for a couple hours to slow down the ether molecules. Then on a cool day. away from any flames or sparks, I punch two holes in the top of the can with an awl. One hole to pour the ether the other a breather. I pour in into the gallon can all 8 ounces. Earlier this year a fellow gave me a partial gallon of fuel from the late 1990's. I ran one of my diesels on this fuel and it required a higher than normal compression setting. Adding a can of John Deere starting fluid to the almost full gallon made the fuel like new. If you know a druggist you may be able to get some ether from a drug store. Some guys do but I have not tried this since the late 1950's. It make take two cans if the fuel is real flat. Too much ether just makes starting even easier with maybe a bit of power lost. When tightening the lid on the metal can I use a strap wrench. Also for removing the lid. Wash the lid and can before tightening to remove oil. After you think it is tight enough hold the can upside down to see if there is a leak. Also after a couple days if you smell ether you have a leak.

Might work in small batches but interesting reading nevertheless.
 
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You know what they say. It all has to meet a certain ASTM specification. Does it? Who knows. If it does, is that really enough lubrication? Probably not.

Even if it did meet todays standards it's not what many of the old engines were designed for. If it weren't for the emissions crap we could run better treatments on the new engines. The older ones at least don't have def and dpf issues.
 
Here is a copy and paste on rejuvinating old diesel. From antique modeler or something like that.


If the lid has not been properly tightened and sealed on a container of diesel fuel that has been opened and stored for a long time the ether content will evaporate, causing some hard starting problems. The following procedure will restore your fuel to like-new attributes..
Get some John Deere tractor starting fluid in a can. The can indicates 80% ether and 7 ounces. I get about 8 ounces when finished. I hold the can upside down and spray out the propellant. Then I place in the freezer for a couple hours to slow down the ether molecules. Then on a cool day. away from any flames or sparks, I punch two holes in the top of the can with an awl. One hole to pour the ether the other a breather. I pour in into the gallon can all 8 ounces. Earlier this year a fellow gave me a partial gallon of fuel from the late 1990's. I ran one of my diesels on this fuel and it required a higher than normal compression setting. Adding a can of John Deere starting fluid to the almost full gallon made the fuel like new. If you know a druggist you may be able to get some ether from a drug store. Some guys do but I have not tried this since the late 1950's. It make take two cans if the fuel is real flat. Too much ether just makes starting even easier with maybe a bit of power lost. When tightening the lid on the metal can I use a strap wrench. Also for removing the lid. Wash the lid and can before tightening to remove oil. After you think it is tight enough hold the can upside down to see if there is a leak. Also after a couple days if you smell ether you have a leak.

Might work in small batches but interesting reading nevertheless.

Given that diesel costs about four bucks a gallon, and the opportunity to blow yourself up with this technique, I would opt for just buying another gallon of diesel. But if any HOF members try this and survive, would you please post about your experience? Ought to be interesting.
 
Bob, sorry to hear about your situation and I wish you the best of luck and a fast recovery. As far as storing diesel fuel for a few months I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's not gasoline. As long as it's clean and fresh to start with and you have no water in the system you should be fine.

Now, using a quality lubricity additive with a cetane booster on a regular basis is another thing entirely.
 
Sending you best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Fanfare gets stored for about 9 months each year in the water in Florida. All I have done for many years is add the recommended maintenance amount of Biobor to each tank as I fill up at the end of each season. That leaves as little room for air and condensation as possible. Have had no problems in at least 30 years. I don't think you have anything to worry about re fuel. Just concentrate on getting well!
 
Thanks everyone for all the good wishes. I'm very 'up' regarding the whole thing. The lymphoma was discovered early because I get a routine lung CT exam every year. At this point there are no symptoms other than a mild cough and the oncologist says he will cure it. Fingers crossed. I'll still have the 204FX Angler to fish and play with so this will be an opportunity to do something different for a change and see how non-boaters live.

Regarding lubricity additives, I am suspicious about the test methods (and accelerated test method development is one of my specialties). Measuring lubricity of a fuel that has nothing added except for the single variable - $uper duper diesel $tuff - may be very different than taking a ULST fuel that is formulated to meet standards and adding the $tuff to it. My guess is the incremental improvement will be less, but how do you guess how much less. As an example, back in my working days I did a lot of development of plastics with internal lubricants to make better gears, conveyor belts etc. In each of the studies, the biggest friction and wear decrease occurred with the first small amounts of lubricant. Adding more made smaller improvements and often further increases would weaken the plastic.

Personally my 6V92's just loaf along at 1000-1100 rpm most of the time and I crank them up just to blow them out every 10-20 hours or so. I have been using Howes MPK after my first run south when I realized I had a smoky transom. It cleaned the exhaust beautifully. I have about 3000 miles on the transom (I admit to being lazy) and it shows just a hint of smoke. Howe's is pretty cheap too when bought by the case. So maybe I'll just settle for a bit of algaecide.

Bobk
 
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The base fuel used for comparison is supposed to meet ASTM D975. That is the U.S. standard, which, BTW, is significantly lower than the European standard for lubricity. If someone is showing you test results that don't use a base fuel meeting D975, then I'd agree they're gaming the results.

That being said I can tell you that Bosch, who makes diesel fuel systems all over the world is seeing very different failure modes here than they are in Europe and it's directly attributable to the lower standard.

It's your fuel system. Do whatever you're comfortable with.
 
The base fuel used for comparison is supposed to meet ASTM D975. That is the U.S. standard, which, BTW, is significantly lower than the European standard for lubricity. If someone is showing you test results that don't use a base fuel meeting D975, then I'd agree they're gaming the results.

That being said I can tell you that Bosch, who makes diesel fuel systems all over the world is seeing very different failure modes here than they are in Europe and it's directly attributable to the lower standard.

It's your fuel system. Do whatever you're comfortable with.

Hmmm... The Bosch results are a bit disconcerting. Do you know what the European standard is? I'd like to compare the two. Is the difference related to lubricity or some other factor? Any info on Valvtec fuels? They claim to be better.

Bobk
 
I'd have to go digging for a DIN number, but the ATSM standard is a maximum .520 micron wear scar on a HFRR. European standard is 460 microns.

For those not in the biz that's a High Frequency Reciprocating Rig which basically rolls a ball bearing around between two metal plates (just like you'd roll a ball of dough between your hands) while submerged in the sample. The better the lubrication the smaller the wear scar.

FWIW, Bosch initially tried to bring it's European system for rebuilding common rail injectors to the U.S. but ended up having to recall it and offer a different, and of course more expensive solution to the U.S. market. The failure mode in Europe was for the nozzles to wear out. Which was the common failure mode for all injectors here and there prior to the introduction of ULSD. What they found in the U.S. was that the valve seats in the CR injectors were the failure point which necessitated an entirely different methodology to salvage them, involving regrinding the bodies instead of just replacing nozzle assemblies.

Common rail is obviously more critical than conventional injection systems, but lubrication is lubrication. You wouldn't run Detroits on 10W, I don't run my injection systems on untreated ULSD either. Even though it meets ASTM D975.
 
Valvetect... is one of the three big manufacturers that oil companies use for additive. Even if it doesn't say it on the pump there's a good chance that it's in the fuel. The question is how much? Are they just using it to meet ASTM, or are they using enough to exceed the standard?
 
Heres a link I found. Fyi the first conclusion I drew is ulsd from the pump sucks.

the second is that short of biodiesel which has a few issues of its own there is a clear winner for best additive in this test.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/76.../177728-lubricity-additive-study-results.html

Remember this study used untreated ULSD fuel.... no lubricity additive. I'd like to see the HFFR result on the typical treated ULSD fuel. Is it just barely at the D975 limit, or do they exceed the limit.
 
For what it's worth, the European test is EN ISO 12156-1. It is an HFRR test as is the US D975, but none of the free literature I could find compared the details of the two tests.

Bobk
 
Heres a link I found. Fyi the first conclusion I drew is ulsd from the pump sucks.

the second is that short of biodiesel which has a few issues of its own there is a clear winner for best additive in this test.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/76.../177728-lubricity-additive-study-results.html


Scott I think # 7 is your best bang for the buck after all you do have a two stroke plus you can buy Super Tech when your doing your weekly shopping in your favorite store :D


Bob sorry to help derail your thread just want you to know we will be thinking of you and wish you are best at a Full and Fast recovery !
Good luck with the Non boater lifestyle that's going to be the Hard part for you :p
 
This discussion on additives and lubricity has caused me to do more reading on the subject than a good novel. Here is another good reference for others interested in tribology (wear & friction).

http://www.infineum.com/Documents/Fuels Technical Papers/SAE/2009-01-0848.pdf

From all my reading, the European and US test standards for wear (HFRR) are very similar. There are two minor differences that I can see, test temperature, and humidity control. I suspect we can compare the data and as Scrod pointed out, the European standard requires a lower wear rate than the US does.

Also I learned that the term 'biodiesel' is not simply the waste fats and oils, but rather it is further treated to produce simple esters from the triglycerides that make up the fats and oils. These esters turn out to be amongst the best lubricity additives, i.e. wear reducing agents in the wear tests. Hence the really great performance of 'biodiesel' when added to untreated fuel feed stock.

The best of the nitrogen containing additives seems to be 8-hydroxyquinoline.

Also, as I found in my studies with plastics all those years ago, the biggest bang for the buck comes with the lowest additive concentrations. The additional improvements decrease with increasing concentrations and actually level off. This is shown in several publications including in the link above.

Bottom line, some extra additives may be helpful, but there are several published cautions about mixing additive types (what the fuel distributor added and your own mix). Adding esters (biodiesel) is likely the safest way to go if you are going to add more but this is just my interpretation of less than what I would call detailed studies.

So now it is time to study the MSDS for the various additives.

Bobk
 
The biodiesel is great except that it has such high detergency it plugs filters on older boats.

I was going to fill up my boat with it and the distributor talked me out of it.
 
The biodiesel is great except that it has such high detergency it plugs filters on older boats.

I was going to fill up my boat with it and the distributor talked me out of it.

Why on Older boats my tanks are spotless confirm by visual and had my hand in the bottom of them more than once. Its an easy fix to have clean tanks :confused:
 

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