Glassing in fwd salon windows in a 43C - Pros and Cons

[Bob Bradley]

I'm thinking about glassing in the 3 fwd windows in my cabin. The boat has the same basic layout as the 45C, with a large "dashboard" area to stbd that is over the master suite.

I rebedded the windows again this past spring, and since then two of them have cracked. I don't know if we knicked the glass cleaning out the old caulk, or if my fairly large buddy who helped me on them leaned too heavily on them, but the port fwd window went first, and now the middle one is starting to crack from the top down.

Since I have to at least replace two windows, I'm thinking about having fiberglass panels fabricated and eliminating them altogether. Other than the obvious con that is less light coming in, and the obvious pro that is less heat coming in, what is everybody's take on this?

BTW, if I did it, I would also build a nice teak cabinet and TV mount to go in the "dash" area.

 

[jim rosenthal]

If you don't have an inside helm station, it's not a bad idea at all. The biggest headache is having to repaint the area that you just worked on, so that it matches everything else. However, since there are clear lines where the triple windshield panels begin and end, you could conceivably do this yourself, rolling and tipping the paint as I did.

You will need to panel the inside as well. Afromosia and teak veneer plywood is available; there is a place in NC that has a lot of it, and their name has been posted here a few times. Someone with better memory than mine will no doubt recall it and put it in this thread.

You can get large panels of laid-up fiberglass laminate from McMaster-Carr, or possibly from Strongwell, which is a company that makes and sells preformed fiberglass structural elements. Both make very good quality items. I would not think that this needs to be very thick, since the load on it is not huge, but you will more than likely need to brace it from behind and tie the bracing into the areas around the original window frame, since it will crack along the glue lines if it moves around.

A big project, and bigger than replacing cracked glass, but worth it, I suppose, for the possibility of a permanent fix. And, if done right, you ought to achieve a permanent fix.

 

[Bob Bradley]

Do you typically remove the glass or leave it in place?

 

[bigbill]

bob i have seen it done two different ways. one way is to replace the glass panel with a fiberglass panel in the existing frame. the other way like i did my 46sf is to remove the frame, router out an area about 1/2 inch all the way around the hole to make a recessed area to fit the panel, 5200, and screws countersunk. then fill the screw holes and any gap around the new panel. then grind and glass the seam about 3 inches on either side, fair and paint. a friend made my panels with a foam core and scrimped. they were lighter than the original frame without the glass in it. he told me to make them solid frp panels they would be heavy and would need to be about 3/8 of an inch thick. never had another leak and they didn't have any stress cracks after a year of use and going through hurricane katrina

 

[Tim Powell]

I'm thinking about glassing in the 3 fwd windows in my cabin. The boat has the same basic layout as the 45C, with a large "dashboard" area to stbd that is over the master suite.

I rebedded the windows again this past spring, and since then two of them have cracked. I don't know if we knicked the glass cleaning out the old caulk, or if my fairly large buddy who helped me on them leaned too heavily on them, but the port fwd window went first, and now the middle one is starting to crack from the top down.

Since I have to at least replace two windows, I'm thinking about having fiberglass panels fabricated and eliminating them altogether. Other than the obvious con that is less light coming in, and the obvious pro that is less heat coming in, what is everybody's take on this?

BTW, if I did it, I would also build a nice teak cabinet and TV mount to go in the "dash" area.

I Have seen it done two ways also. The entire window frame was removed and replaced with plywood veneer on one side which matched the cabin exactely. The window frames were left in and the bordello type (plastic mirror ) was installed along with plywood to fill in the glass gone. The outside was glassed and painted.
Just do it and do not look back a 53 hat named OUT REACH went out the Hatteras inlet a wave broke the front windshield or knocked it out of its frame you can guess the rest. If this is not bad enough you will probley never stop the leaking once it starts. I owned a 1964 34 leaked like a sive never could stop the leakes Tim

 

[hibanx]

I have the same boat. On mine I have the original glass, but I have a canvas windshield cover that not only blocks out the heat and light, but it also makes it virtually leak proof. The overhang of the brow prevents water from running down behind it, and the cover is made of vinyl and is waterproof. I think it makes the boat look a bit more modern because the canvas color matches the paint so it appears to be glassed in. Much cheaper option than having to glass in the outside and panel the inside. If I was in your position I would replace the glass and have a cover made, keeping it in its original condition. Just my $.02.

 

[Bob Bradley]

Thanks, guys. Nice looking boat, Hi.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I have a similar cover, made from Sunbrella. Works fine. Light comes through, and a surprising amount of heat as well, especially facing west late in the day....

If I were doing this, I think I'd remove the aluminum frames and everything, and glass FRP panels to the existing openings. You might call Tom Slane, he has supplied panels to fit for this model and other boats as well.

 

[Bob Bradley]

I want the strength of the panels. The main reason I'm considering this job is the cracks that developed after I rebedded the glass this past spring. I get into some sporty conditions offshore from time to time, and I worry about structural integrity. Preventing leaks is a secondary benefit.

 

[ohiohatteras]

Took mine out and they replaced glass with wood.

 

[ohiohatteras]

Finished

 

[Bob Bradley]

That's real sharp looking, Ohio. (Certainly sharper than your state's voting decisions, but I digress) Did you say they used wood to replace the glass or did you mean just to trim out the inside?

 

[Capt. Mark]

bob i have seen it done two different ways. one way is to replace the glass panel with a fiberglass panel in the existing frame. the other way like i did my 46sf is to remove the frame, router out an area about 1/2 inch all the way around the hole to make a recessed area to fit the panel, 5200, and screws countersunk. then fill the screw holes and any gap around the new panel. then grind and glass the seam about 3 inches on either side, fair and paint. a friend made my panels with a foam core and scrimped. they were lighter than the original frame without the glass in it. he told me to make them solid frp panels they would be heavy and would need to be about 3/8 of an inch thick. never had another leak and they didn't have any stress cracks after a year of use and going through hurricane katrina

Bigbill, I want to remove the front windows in my 42C, I understand the routing part, but what did you use for panels? I do not know what foam core and scrimped is? I was planning on using waterproof plywood. Thanks for your help
Capt. Mark

 

[buzzk]

I would install new front windows to keep the light. You can buy one piece fiberglass window frames that will not leak from Broadus Rose at boatwindowframes.com. I've seen them and they are nice.

 

[jim rosenthal]

If you are going to take the windows out, the best way to do it is to fill in the empty areas with fiberglass sheet. You can buy large panels of pre laid up FRP from McMaster-Carr in 1/8, 3/16, and 1/4 thickness. I think they come large enough to do what you want. You will have to grind out all the stuff that's in there to get a clean edge to bond to, and you will have to reinforce them from inside with FRP strips bonded along the seams. (this will be difficult to clamp, so I would probably drill for small bolts and washers, and once everything was set up, fill the holes left when I took them out) Then, lots of sanding and fairing, and then paint it. You would be done with the outside and then just have to worry about the inside. I think most folks would just fit afromosia paneling to match the rest of the boat and maybe install a TV or something up there. There's a lot of empty space under those three windows.

As far as worrying about having a wave break through and join you inside the boat, in bad weather, I think it would be far less likely if you closed up the windows as described. Good luck. I have been on several boats where this was done and they came out just fine. And really there is enough light in there, from the sides, although it isn't as nice as it is with the windows in place.

 

[buzzk]

My wife has a problem getting sea sick in cabins with the front windows closed in. That's why I like the light from the front windows.

 

[bigbill]

capt mark, the foam core i spoke about was made at seeman composites. it is a rigid foam panel that is fiberglassed completely. scrimp is a vacuum infusion method that the people at seeman designed.

 

[Tim Powell]

If you don't have an inside helm station, it's not a bad idea at all. The biggest headache is having to repaint the area that you just worked on, so that it matches everything else. However, since there are clear lines where the triple windshield panels begin and end, you could conceivably do this yourself, rolling and tipping the paint as I did.

You will need to panel the inside as well. Afromosia and teak veneer plywood is available; there is a place in NC that has a lot of it, and their name has been posted here a few times. Someone with better memory than mine will no doubt recall it and put it in this thread.

You can get large panels of laid-up fiberglass laminate from McMaster-Carr, or possibly from Strongwell, which is a company that makes and sells preformed fiberglass structural elements. Both make very good quality items. I would not think that this needs to be very thick, since the load on it is not huge, but you will more than likely need to brace it from behind and tie the bracing into the areas around the original window frame, since it will crack along the glue lines if it moves around.

A big project, and bigger than replacing cracked glass, but worth it, I suppose, for the possibility of a permanent fix. And, if done right, you ought to achieve a permanent fix.

Atlantic vanier Beauford North carolina

 

[luckydave215]

I run my boat in blue water, and carry a 13' RIB on the foredeck.
No tender cradle, no matter how strong, is mean enough to withstand a big wave over the bow at 20 knots, (if it was, the tender itself would tear apart) and having forward windows would make me nervous about the worst-case-scenario of taking a big green one aboard and throwing the tender - prop first - through the windows at the worst possible time. Wave energy alone is more than the windows are up to, you don't need to throw a tender through them to have a BIG problem.
In my opinion forward windows have no place on a sport fisher that's otherwise comfortable running fast(ish) in rough water.
A motoryacht or trawler is another story of course, but the OP is talking about a 43C.

 

[Vincentc]

capt mark, the foam core i spoke about was made at seeman composites. it is a rigid foam panel that is fiberglassed completely. scrimp is a vacuum infusion method that the people at seeman designed.

Bill,
Your reference to Seemann brought back old daydreams about building a sea flex boat. I checked their web site and see that they have gone high tech and high end as a military industrial contractor. Interesting that they would take a small custom job.

Regards