Gina Marie Fuel

[Gina Marie]

With the help from the Forum I am almost on my way, Boat Yard work all done and I have hired a mechanic. He is now performing much needed maintanence and he is instructing me on many things I could do. If you remember my last Thread on Cost of Maintanence this gentlemen is doing much of the work for a fraction of the cost. He is timely and keeps me informed on his findings. And get this, he did not want a deposit before he started. I am sold.
Now my question, can the forum educate me on fuel. My mechanic is indicating I have a high growth of alge. He suggests burning off the .25 of fuel I have left( which has been on the boat since November). Adding an alge controller call "boreatex" (I think thats what he said ,my notes are on the boat) and continue to change the filters often. Replenish with new fuel, add alge controls and monitor my filters. Can you confirm procedures for current conditions and maintaining a future clean fuel supply.

Thanks you Gina Marie/Tom

 

[SKYCHENEY]

When we bought our 43 it was full of algae. That's what we did. Just kept treating and changing filters. Eventually we got rid of that stuff.

 

[Genesis]

Here's what I'd do.

First, you do not have "algae". There is no such thing in fuel - algae requires light to grow. You MAY have a bacterial problem.

To have one, you need water in the fuel. No water, no growth. Period.

So let's first figure out if you have that problem.

Examine the filter(s) he pulled to determine this. If they have a slimy "stuff" in them, that's bacterial. It is usually (but not always) black in color.

If the deposits are GRITTY then they are not bacterial in origin; they are asphaltene. It is, of course possible to have both.

If the deposits are SLIMY then you must first find a way to get the water out of the tank or you will never solve this problem. I'll keep coming back and make you CRAZY. This will likely require pulling the tank plates where the outlets are, sticking a tube ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM, and sucking out the gunk until you get it all, including the water. DO NOT attempt to emulsify the water with a chemical treatment - that risks your injectors - I wouldn't do it! There could be as much as a couple of GALLONS of water in there, and it simply has to come out or you'll never have a clean system.

While you have the top off the tank I'd then replace that tube so it goes as close to the bottom as you can get while being certain you get clean draw (this may involve an elbow on the bottom of the tube facing rearward and going all the way to the bottom, etc) This insures you get the crap out and into your filters where it belongs and can be removed entirely instead of leaving it in your tank where it causes further trouble. There is a school of thought that says you want an inch or even more of clearance so the water "stays" in the tank - that's bogus, because what REALLY happens (from experience) is that the one time you're low on fuel and the seas are rough you suck up a huge hunk of water all at once and (provided your fuel/water separators are working right) the engine shuts down as the fuel system shuts off the flow. (If the separator is NOT working right your engine eats the water and blows all the injector tips off, and you get a nice bill to fix it.) Note that the engine shutting down can be real bad - maybe even worse than blowing the injector tips off - especially if it happens in an inlet with stacked breaking waves!

Second, find out how you got the water in there. It is NOT coming from condensation. It IS likely coming in your fuel fills. Check the O-rings and make sure they seal properly. Replace if at all questionable.

Once the water is out, THEN you can hit the tank with a dose of biocide, such as BIOBOR. One thing to be aware of is that you should NEVER use that stuff as a "maintenance chemical." Biocides are all halogenated compounds and are extremely corrosive. Over time they will eat injector tips. So if you need it, use it, then STOP, and never double up or increase dosages over the "shock" amounts.

OK, so that's for "algae" (really bacteria)

If you have asphaltene, you still want to suck the crap out and extend the pickup. However, once its out its return is a matter of fuel breaking down in the tank if the boat is not run enough. The only real fix is to use the boat more, but you can use quality fuel conditioners to hold this problem in check. Diesel Kleen is decent and cheap, available at WalMart, and will do the job for you (gray bottle, not the white, which is a winter fuel conditioner and is only appropriate for cold temperature operation - under 32F) There are other good ones, including Racor's, Stanadyne and a few others, but its hard to beat the WallyWorld price. If you have asphaltene problems this treatment is one you may need to keep up on; even better is that the Diesel Kleen won't hurt the engine if you 'overdo' it - you just waste money. The DK also helps boost cetane which doesn't hurt either.

To clean the system if you have major asphaltene problems your best option is to find somewhere that sells a B20 blend of Biodiesel. Run a couple of tanks of that and you'll have a clean fuel system. BUT - and you're being fairly warned in advance - this stuff will flush every last bit of crap off the tank walls and hoses/lines - better have a LOT of filters handy, because the usual result of putting this into an old fuel system is a BUNCH of clogged filters, sequentially, until all the crap is out. But that's good, isn't it - it solves the problem!

If you have a polishing system you can stick the B20 in there and turn on the polishing system at the dock. It'll take a while to do the whole job, and you still need the filters, but at least you won't need to worry about one clogging up under way.

 

[Gina Marie]

Genesis, thanks for that interpertation and direction.

I live in Boca Raton and we will use the boat every weekend.

You have indicated three potential problems:

Based on your comments keeping the fuel clean in the short run will keep major problems from happening in the long run.

Then:

A polishing system could you tell me what this does. I was told I could have someone come to the boat and polish my tanks. They would charge me by the gallon. I currently have appox .25 of the tank filled. Would this solve either issue or just one and would polishing remove the water if their is any.

How do I keep water from building up in the future??

Does it make sense just to dump the fuel legally and refill and if so how do I clean the walls of the tank to protect the fuel when I fill up.

Is the $$$$ worth investing in a dockside polishing unit??????????? are these expensive.

Thanks again for your input.

Gina Marie/Tom

 

[Genesis]

A polishing system is a system designed to turn over the fuel in the tank when the boat is not in use. An onboard system can either be integral to your fuel filtration system, or it can be "outboard". The portable systems are both high speed and expensive, but are what the mobile places need to make their business work. They are almost certainly not appropriate for your situation.

An onboard polishing system can be nothing more than a handful of fittings, a Walbro diesel fuel pump (about $120), a couple of valves and a spring-wound timer. It allows you to pull the fuel in the tank through your filter system and then bypass the engine, returning it to the tank down the return line, when you are at the dock.

If you want to get fancy (and have the room for it) you can add a depth-style filter such as the GCF-1 (Gulf Coast Filters); that unit cannot flow enough to be used "inline" with the engine, but it works fine for a polishing system. It is also VERY effective. I can't use one due to space concerns in my boat - they're pretty big.

Polishing only removes water if your pickup goes to the very bottom of the tank, or they remove the access plate and insert their own tube to the very bottom of the tank. Maintenance-wise you want that, although I'm sure some will disagree. If I have water in my tank I want it to be picked up and brought to my filters immediately, because if it "sits" it creates biological trouble AND if it gets picked up under rough conditions its going to shut me down at the precise time I cannot afford to lose an engine.

For what you would pay to have someone come and do this, you can modify your system so you can do it yourself, then have it forever.

Maintenance is mostly a matter of keeping water from getting in there in the first place. If you cruise locally find a good fuel dock and use it religiously. Pick someone that turns over a LOT of fuel - a dock that services a charter fleet or commercial vessels is a good choice.

Maintain your deck fill O-rings. At the first sign of checking or wear, replace them. They're pennies - literally. Hatts have decent fuel systems to the deck fills and vents to start with, so its unlikely your problem stems there. Don't believe the condensation weenies - they're wrong, although there are all kinds of people who will try to sell you on the idea that condensation is causing water to get into your taniks. The numbers have been run on this, and it simply isn't true. If water is coming in, its coming from outside the boat and NOT from water vapor in the air.

The best and easiest way to clean the walls of the tank and the fuel lines is to find that Biodiesel, as I noted. It works. Just have a lot of extra filters handy and be prepared to use them, because you're going to need them. Some polishing people will claim to 'jet' fuel around the tank to clean the walls - that kinda works, but baffling in the tank prevents it from being truly effective.

I see no reason to dump the existing fuel. Throwing away perfectly good fuel is, IMHO, insane, particularly at today's prices. Remove the contaminents instead. Either pay someone to come and polish it this time, or install the pump and timer, and have it "forever".

BTW, properly installed a system like this doubles as a priming system - which you some day may find very helpful if you run out of fuel or have trouble with airlocks after doing filter changes!

 

[MikeP]

You can make a portable polisher

quite easily. I made one two years ago using a Gulf Coast F1 filter and a Holley 12V electric fuel pump. I have it mounted on a sheet of plywood. I most recently used it to transfer 105 gal of diesel from my forward waste tank (which the previous owner converted to fuel) to the main tanks. It took a little over an hour.

Several people at the marina have borrowed it and it works really well. I had a severe fuel contamination problem two years ago with about 270 gal of nearly black fuel. It came out of the F1 crystal clear. The marina "mechanic" expressed shock, saying, "You mean you made this yourself?" (This should indicate the capability of the average marina mechanic). It's a handy thing to have and eliminates the need to depend on (and pay) someone else.

 

[Nonchalant1]

When I bought our 53MY, it had old, black fuel in it. We put BioDiesel in it and we clogged the RACORs on the way home from St. Lawrence Seaway to Chicago. To get rid of it, we just kept changing RACORs and burning tanks of fuel. Now I can run all season (about 200 hrs. running time) and don't have to change RACORs until I put it in winter storage. I continue to use BioDiesel all the time. I have never seen water in the RACOR glass bulbs or slime on the filters, so I think it's just asphaltene from the old fuel.

Karl, on very cold days, could he see parafin which will gel out of normal fuel at low temps and get on the filter and be mistaken for "slime"?

Doug Shuman

 

[MikeP]

Fuel Condensation is a huge problem

according to those who sell products to eliminate it. (sorry, couldn't resist) If you are interested in the "numbers" as G mentioned, this article was the final evidence to prove that the problem does not exist.

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/myth_of_..._fuel_tanks.htm

I had been storing cars over the winter for years and had never seen the problem. I always wondered how it could be a problem for a boat and not for a car. The answer is, it isn't!

Incidentally, if you are not familiar with David Pascoe's website, read all his articles - they are absolutely excellent information from someone who's been surveying boats for many years. I've talked to him on the phone several times - he doesn't have an ounce of BS in him but you may not like everything he says. He is generally fond of Hatts but they don't totally escape his ire!

 

[MikeP]

What the heck?

Guess I still haven't mastered this board. Only meant to post that once.

 

[Pascal]

what do you mean... i only see it once! (after i deleted 2 of them ...)