Freeing a Stuck Reversing Valve on AC

[captddis]

The condensors are the weak link. Steel/copper. Also no low press switch.

 

[Angela]

I think on my next go-round with new AC, I'm not going to mess with heat. I use heat about 5 times a year, a night here and there. I'll use cube/space heaters if I must during those times. When I needed it this past January in the salon, I just did lot of baking on those nights and left the oven open afterwards to let the heat out - that was enough to keep the chill off. When it's just me on the boat, I only need to heat the crew room where I sleep. My prediction is that as long as Sanctuary belongs to me, she'll never be north of Miami during the cold season, so messing with aux heat just isn't worth it to me. Tortola is my real destination and they don't need no stinkin' heat down there. If someone down the road who might own her later (probably when I'm dead and gone!) wants to put it in...go for it.

 

[fixin-to-cruise]

Cruisair reversing valves are made by Ranco. It took me a while to figure that out. http://www.icca.invensys.com/ranco/HVACR_rev.html. I bought a valve for a 16,000 btu unit from a local A/C supply for $60 that was $210 from Cruisair. If you change to a different A/C maker you might find the same valve.

To get the system fixed cheap and get the best quality repair you can remove it from the boat yourself, buy the valve and either solder it in yourself (silver solder requiring acetylene) or bring it to any A/C contractor and give them a little cash. After it's soldered you can paint the valve and clean up the unit and reinstall. There are 2 110/220V cables, the multiconductor cable to the control, temp sensor wires, the refigerant lines, and the water hoses. You can get a quote for a vacuum pumpout and recharge from any repair shop. I wrote another post with the tools required t set yourself up if you want to be entirely self-sufficient and it's basically $150 for R-22, $40 for gauges, $300 for a turbo-torch and tank and $225 for a vacuum pump = $700. It's break even pretty quickly!

I think that reversing valve are like thru-hulls and need to be exercised to work. If you get it to work by tapping it carefully it might be fine.

 

[krush]

I got all them tools, but I'm in VA, not Florida. When soldering up the valve ya gotta be careful that the heat doesn't make it's way to the new valve and mess it up.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

Angela, Angela...Stop please. You are not finding the cause of your problem. Don't swear off using the heat function. It works fine. The only problem that I have ever heard of with that heat/cool valve is when people go a long time without selecting heat. You need to excersise that valve monthly or it will stick in the COOL mode, not the HEAT mode. I don't know what kind of thermostats you have. We have the old 3 knob system and it works great. You sound like you have several thermostats talking to one AC unit, or are you saying that ALL your AC units are stuck in the heat mode? I can't believe that. You girls are drinking some heavy stuff. Your boat must have at least 4 AC units. Each should have their own thermostat, right? I haven't seen too many different thermostat systems, but I have never heard of a marine unit that has a heat/cool switch. The ones I know of just have a temperature setting and the AC unit gives you whatever is needed to keep that selected temperature. Mine just have a rotary knob, but still will cool on a hot day or heat on a cold day. There is a Cuban guy named Jose that is around Dinner Key and has worked on my AC. He is pretty sharp. His card and phone # are in the marina office. I can't remember what he calls his outfit though. I am in Detroit and his card is aboard our Hatteras.

 

[Angela]

I called CruisAir about my warranty. Parts are still covered, but labor is not. Bummer. I was referred to a dealer other than Thomas Marine who is not allowed on my boat anymore. I’ve got a CruisAir person coming on Wednesday. Some of the gas lines on the unit have overheated and burned the paint off so there may be more bad things going on in there than just the reversing valve. I spoke to this new guy in great detail. He knew the condensing unit I had and admitted that CruisAir hasn’t done well with this one and that it’s prone to fail. He said the design was revived by CruisAir at the request for Lazzarra Yachts (not sure if I spelled that right) and while it wasn’t really intended to retrofit into our old systems, CruisAir’s been selling it for that application anyway. Regardless, I’m stuck with it for now. Lesson learned and I have to move on one way or another. While I still have some warranty for this unit, I have to live with it until I can fund the cost to replace it with four self-contained units.

Maynard, this system has individual thermostats and evaporator units in each of the four staterooms. All four systems in the staterooms run off of a single 24,000 BTU condensing unit that modulates as it senses whether all four rooms are calling for cooling, or whether only the littlest room is calling for it and would then modulate itself down to that level of need. I have the Honeywell brick-style thermostats, not the rotary knobs. All of this is original equipment. It is my understanding that this particular system (the modulating unit with the 8 solenoid valves to dispense gas as needed) was only installed on the Series I 58MY and on some Coast Guard boats. I’ve heard that from a few different, unrelated sources. There is a main toggle switch that goes between Cool, Off, and Heat. That switch controls whether the staterooms run heat or cool. All of the staterooms have to be in one mode or the other. In other words, the master can’t be cooling while the crew is heating. I have seven AC units on the boat overall. The four units that run on that one condensing unit that serves the staterooms is the one that’s been a thorn in my side. The other three evaporator units run off of two 29-year-old CruisAir condensing units like champs.

 

[Maynard Rupp]

Wow Ang..That is a really complicated system for sure. Usually there are several compressor units, each with a single evaporater and a single thermostat. I have seen some of these boats with 5 seperate units. You might need a smart guy to straighten this one out.

 

[stormchaser]

Well, having several evaporator units isn't unusual...but having them with separate controls is. On mine, the salon unit is a split system, one large compressor (20k I think?) , and two small er evaporators/air handlers... 2 10ks. The galley/bow stateroom is also a split unit. But each compressor has only 1 thermostat.

 

[Angela]

This is why I often hear "what the hell is all that?" from a new AC tech when he enters the engine room. I'm used to it now.

Complicated? Very...if you have to work on it. The idea of the system, however, was brilliant. It seems to me that Hatteras designed this to stay within the confines of 50 amp service, even when calculating start up amps used, yet sufficiently cool the entire boat which required 7 AC units while giving the occupants of each stateroom individual control over the comfort of their room. Yes, things are more efficient today and we can probably get away with eventually replacing this with four individual units without blowing the breaker, even with start up. I really, really like the concept that the couple in the master stateroom does not control how warm/cool the couple in the guest stateroom has to be (or however the other rooms are configured on the 53MY or 58YF); likewise for other guest rooms. There weren't many of these systems put into service and as a result service techs didn't have much interest over the years learning them and staying on top of it. So, the knowledge base for these is quickly fading away, and today, we are in this mess of difficulty finding anyone who truly knows this system. I know when I find someone who knows it because I can "hear" the belly ache over the phone, followed by "Oh, THAT one."

If CruisAir made a replacement condensing unit that was reliable, this set up would still be very desirable. But the replacement condensing unit is only manufactured when someone needs one and special orders it - then, they go build it. At its cost, given what I've learned about CruisAir reliability today, I won't make this mistake again. Once this unit bites the last bullet, it's outta here.

 

[stormchaser]

I can run all 4 units with 6 airhandlers and not blow the 50amp. But BARELY...

 

[Angela]

I can run all 4 units with 6 airhandlers and not blow the 50amp. But BARELY...

That’s why I got what I got...without this funky system, I would need to run 6 condensing units and 7 air handlers to reach the level of sophistication that I have now. I think we can benefit from newer technology today. Ed will be here over Memorial Day weekend, and we’ll start doing the math in an effort to intelligently plan for the next system.

 

[adubuisson]

I see this is an old post and you may already have your problem solved, but I had the same problem with my enclosed flybridge A/C. Considering my vintage (1979 60C EFBSF), I probably have a similar A/C system configuration to what you have.

According to the previous owner of my Hat, they thought (or someone advised them) it was the Tstat control. I replaced the entire three knob control with a new one. Same problem continued....Heat only. I checked all the wiring schematics and all checked. Apparently someone has crossed wiring in the past or I have a PC board problem. For the interim, when I realized heat mode of the reversing valve requires the valve to be energized, I unplugged the valve, sealed off the connectors with rubber boots and it has been working fine in cool mode (which is all I use up there 95% of the time anyway) until I get a chance to reevaluate all the wiring. So for now, I have been able to move that item down to item # 365 on my list. I would just make sure to safely and thoroughly protect and cover both ends of the dis-connection.

I am with you (and all others) on the despair with Cruisair. The older units kick butt without any problem. The new, more delicate units (as with MTU engines vs. DD) need more TLC. Definitely not preferable offshore.

This is a company I have been checking into: Flagshipmarine dot com (Check out the high pressure central system. Seems like a very efficient concept). This company seems similar to Cruisair before it was junked out/complicated by Dometic. All off the shelf parts, easily serviceable, high quality construction and affordable, etc. However, I don't have experience with their systems, or know anyone who does. They just seem like someone to check into if you are considering a total system replacement. Maybe others have knowledge of them.

Good luck!

Alan Dubuisson
1979 60C EFBSF

 

[RyanN]

I see this is an old post and you may already have your problem solved, but I had the same problem with my enclosed flybridge A/C. Considering my vintage (1979 60C EFBSF), I probably have a similar A/C system configuration to what you have.

According to the previous owner of my Hat, they thought (or someone advised them) it was the Tstat control. I replaced the entire three knob control with a new one. Same problem continued....Heat only. I checked all the wiring schematics and all checked. Apparently someone has crossed wiring in the past or I have a PC board problem. For the interim, when I realized heat mode of the reversing valve requires the valve to be energized, I unplugged the valve, sealed off the connectors with rubber boots and it has been working fine in cool mode (which is all I use up there 95% of the time anyway) until I get a chance to reevaluate all the wiring. So for now, I have been able to move that item down to item # 365 on my list. I would just make sure to safely and thoroughly protect and cover both ends of the dis-connection.

I am with you (and all others) on the despair with Cruisair. The older units kick butt without any problem. The new, more delicate units (as with MTU engines vs. DD) need more TLC. Definitely not preferable offshore.

This is a company I have been checking into: Flagshipmarine dot com (Check out the high pressure central system. Seems like a very efficient concept). This company seems similar to Cruisair before it was junked out/complicated by Dometic. All off the shelf parts, easily serviceable, high quality construction and affordable, etc. However, I don't have experience with their systems, or know anyone who does. They just seem like someone to check into if you are considering a total system replacement. Maybe others have knowledge of them.

Good luck!

Alan Dubuisson
1979 60C EFBSF

I like those. Whenever we get enough funds up to decide whether or not to fix the Frankensteined Cruisair system, I might bring this up. We have the V-berth which just runs a fan with the condenser controlled by the state room unit. Then the other unit cools the salon. The state room unit is really messed up. First off, there is no trigger to switch on the water pump. Then the compressor is forced on... no turning it off. It also pulls a lot of amps.

The salon unit is ok as far as I know. My dad just HAD to move the boat to a different spot, and now we don't have 50A service... so the AC/Heater hasn't been run in probably 2 months now. Very bad, but he doesn't understand the importance of running things. He gets mad at me when I turn things on and off. I do it to exercise it, not to just play around. I'd much rather something break now when we don't need it rather than break next summer while out fishing the rigs or something.

 

[bobk]

I was searching for a solution to the same problem.... heat only from a smaller Cruiseair on 120 volts. In my case, the unit was recharged about six weeks ago (needs this about every 18 months) and was running well. Yesterday we got heat only and the rotary knob thermostat no longer clicks as it is turned back and forth. Thermostat?? Can just that knob be replaced?

Bobk