Forward Bilge High Water

[solanderi]

While out fishing (trolling) my 1985 45 Convertible, I got a High water alarm and I found the front bilge full of seawater. Obviously, the rule auto switch was not working, so I just put the pump on manual and cleared the compartment. Unfortuneately, the compartment reaccumulated water and alarmed againa few minutes later. OK, so now it really has my attention. While in my slip, no alarms. On the run out, no alarms. But at hull speed I filled and subsequently dumped this compartment 3 times in quick succession. So we decided to cut the trip short in order to run back to calmer waters and trouble-shoot it. I emptied it and ran in. During the run in, No alarm and no water in the compartment.

All I can come up with is that the issue seems to be connected to the trim of the vessel. The fuel tanks were showing slightly above a 1/4 full. The fresh water tank was topped off in the am before the trip. I believe the trim tabs were extended (bow down). Could it be that a " perfect storm" of bow down forces conspired to back flow my bilge pump ? Are there supposed to be check valves on this bilge outflow ? Thank you for any help.

Greg

 

[GCSI]

Greg: I have a 52C that does the same thing when the Moon, stars and Pluto are in perfect allighnment. In my instance, I'll notice the forward bilge short cycling, if I change speed slightly It'll self correct. The cause is the bilge through hull back siphoning as a function of the bow wake. Can be easily remidied by installing a check valve or siphon break. Check valve is in my parts drawer and on my "list" of various repairs to be accomplished. Problem is of such an intermitent nature that it's not at top of list. Brett

 

[dottieshusband]

I think several here have had the same issue. Mine was rare and intermittent as well. It only happened at certain speeds, and in certain wind and water conditions, and I'll go on a limb and add certain barometric conditions.. But the result was the same.. The forward bilge hose acted as a siphon, and boy does the water come in quick! I added a siphon break, raised the loop height, and based on other comments, also added a $20 one way valve from West Marine (in spite of the admonition from Rule not to)...

 

[Finalee]

Our 43 DC's did the same thing. Regardless how high that loop was , under certain conditions it flowed like it was connected to dockside water . The $20 check valve from West did the trick.

 

[solanderi]

Thank you for the replies. Also, I would have tried to raise the loop but based on Finalee's experience, it will be a check valve all the way. You guys saved me untold # of hours, upside down in that bilge. I couldn't be more appreciative. Cheers !
Greg

 

[TopHattandTails]

Easy check #2: you have dripless or flax shaft seals?

 

[Patoblx1]

I had the same problem on my 45'c and my clam shell was cracked.

Pat-O
The Rod Father

 

[solanderi]

I have ye old flax shaft seals. However, I believe that the forward bilge is a sealed bulkhead as far as i can tell. The water that was accumulating in the forward bilge was not running back to the mid or aft bilges....I think. I am going to dive this weekend so I will check out the external clamshell also. Good advice. Thank you,
Greg

 

[Genesis]

I never had that happen on my 45C in the time I owned her; it would have gotten my attention FAST if it had!

 

[gbharrington]

I found that I had a cracked through hull on my 43DC. Replacing that was all that was required in my case.

 

[dottieshusband]

I guess I'm lucky. On the 63MY the forward bilge pump discharge is behind a large removable panel in the closet of the bow state room. Changing the plumbing was very easy, the bow bilge area is a very large area as well.

 

[Bob Bradley]

I was 90 miles offshore fishing a couple years ago on my 43C and heard a pump coming on and off. Turns out it was two pumps: the shower sump and the bilge. My 200 gal fuel bladder on the bow got the outlets below the waterline. Needless to say I installed siphon breaks the next weekend.

 

[solanderi]

As I had mentioned in the original post, I believe it was the triple threat of trim tabs, full fresh water tank and light fuel tanks combining to cause a "down" bow attitude that was stuffing the bilge outlets into a weird sea pattern or bow wave. Anyways, that is my working hypothesis now. I am topping the fuel tanks off tomorrow and running the boat this weekend. Of course, I have since replaced the Rule switch with a new one and everything looks squared away. Thank you to all for your comments. BTW, the shower sump lives near the top of this compartment which adds more pump out capacity if the need arose. Also, I am able to directly visualize the back side of the outflow fitting when I remove a panel in the forward V-berth. The white flexible tubing that carries the discharge water from the bilge pump looks dry and undamaged.
Greg

 

[GJH]

Personally I hate to install something like a check valve, which introduces new risk and complexity, rather than fixing the root cause. A properly configured and unbroken hose route and an unbroken clamshell simply should not have this issue. You'd have to be going very fast in reverse and heeled over a bit to get this to happen.

 

[Finalee]

I considered drilling holes in the hull for a clamshell, or perhaps gluing it on. Or rerouting the hose for a higher aft discharge. Many different thoughts. Once I saw how simple the check valve is it became the best option. The problem was rare and predictable. Now I do not worry about it. The forward bilge on mine is spotless and the only other water that collects there is the ac condensate. If the hull is holed up there it's gonna be a huge impact to do it and likely sink the boat anyhow.