Florida Boaters, No Ethanol in Marina Gas.

[67hat34c]

Decided to start new thread with this heading because of the importance of this issue.

It appears the Engery bill was passed by the house and understand signed by the Governor. There is an exclusion for Boats in the blended fuel part. Marina's will not be required to comply with blended fuel law. They did not make it illegal to sell blended fuel in marina's just made them exempt.

It looks like at this time, there is no need to re tank your boats.

I did call a few marina's where we will buy fuel and one assured me they will never have ethanol per their supplier. Our marina said their supplier could deliver it, said the truck stops at various places and may have it on board. Still waiting to hear back from Cape Marina.

 

[67hat34c]

Copy of the Email from the state:





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: LEG.INFO [mailto:LEG.INFO@leg.state.fl.us]
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 2:31 PM
To: Hierholzer,Steve
Subject: RE: 526.203


Yes



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Hierholzer,Steve [mailto:Steve.Hierholzer@CNA.com]
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 2:22 PM
To: LEG.INFO
Subject: RE: 526.203


Thank you for the reply, Was this signed by the Governor?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: LEG.INFO [mailto:LEG.INFO@leg.state.fl.us]
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 2:18 PM
To: Hierholzer,Steve
Subject: RE: 526.203


Thank you for your inquiry.

House bill 7135 passed during the 2008 legislative session. (copied below for your convenience)
Section 103. Section 526.203, Florida Statutes, is created
6143 to read:
6144 526.203 Renewable fuel standard.--
6145 (1) DEFINITIONS.--As used in this act:
6146 (a) "Blender," "importer," "terminal supplier," and
6147 "wholesaler" are defined as provided in s. 206.01.
6148 (b) "Blended gasoline" means a mixture of 90 to 91 percent
6149 gasoline and 9 to 10 percent fuel ethanol, by volume, that meets
6150 the specifications as adopted by the department. The fuel
6151 ethanol portion may be derived from any agricultural source.
6152 (c) "Fuel ethanol" means an anhydrous denatured alcohol
6153 produced by the conversion of carbohydrates that meets the
6154 specifications as adopted by the department.
6155 (d) "Unblended gasoline" means gasoline that has not been
6156 blended with fuel ethanol and that meets the specifications as
6157 adopted by the department.
6158 (2) FUEL STANDARD.--Beginning December 31, 2010, all
6159 gasoline sold or offered for sale in Florida by a terminal
6160 supplier, importer, blender, or wholesaler shall be blended
6161 gasoline.
6162 (3) EXEMPTIONS.--The requirements of this act do not apply
6163 to the following:
6164 (a) Fuel used in aircraft.
6165 (b) Fuel sold for use in boats and similar watercraft.
6166 (c) Fuel sold to a blender.
6167 (d) Fuel sold for use in collector vehicles or vehicles
6168 eligible to be licensed as collector vehicles, off-road
6169 vehicles, motorcycles, or small engines.

2008 Session bills may be accessed from our website at www.leg.state.fl.us by following these steps:

click on the seal for the appropriate chamber
scroll down to ‘JUMP TO BILL’ click on "Session" for (2008)
enter the bill number, then click ‘GO’
click on the hyperlink 2008-*** to access the approved text of the bill or
scroll down to "Bill Text" and click on the bill with "er" at the end to review the text

Because we cannot provide legal advice or interpretation, no
representation is made that the information provided herein
is conclusive. We are an information source and all
information provided by this office serves only as a
beginning point for your independent use.

If we may be of further assistance, please advise.

Rose Perry-Platt
Division of Legislative Information Services
Office of Legislative Services
The Florida Legislature

________________________________

From: Hierholzer,Steve [mailto:Steve.Hierholzer@CNA.com]
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 8:58 AM
To: LEG.INFO
Subject: 526.203




Has this been signed into law? Specifically did sub section 3 Exemption B-Fuel sold for boats… also pass?

Please respond asap. Thanks.

 

[34Hatt]

Steve Great news hope it works out and the Marina's stay away from that Crap.

This is good news all around the more E10 is bashed and shown that it is N.G in Washington, the better chance of not getting it in diesel. If they grow a brain maybe even get rid of it Yeah I know If they had brains they won't be in politics

 

[Boatsb]

E 10 would be harder to introduce than B-10 to the diesel users. I think Biodiesel uses less energy than ethanol and makes a net positive so if the useless self interested morons in our government can get their lobbyists hands out their a$$es and stop being their ventriloquist dummies maybe some progress could be made.

Steve has anyone come out with a test for ethanol in the fuel that you could check before filling up? If the marina is wrong an gets you ethanol it could be a disaster.

 

[67hat34c]

Yes, scott see old posts. Simple test is to fill 1000ml beaker with 800ml gasoline and 200ml water and shake it up. phase separation should occure and you should be able to see the gasoline volume decrease. So I plan on trying this on some known blended fuel.

 

[Boatsb]

I mean an easy instant test. Like litmus paper or the EPT for example.

 

[krush]

Simple test kit: http://www.eaa.org/autofuel/autogas/test_kit.asp

It's for airplanes because ethanol is a HUGE no-no in airplanes. Many people run car-gas in smaller airplanes....except in areas where there is only ethanol.

 

[MikeP]

IMHO the fact that a marina doesn't HAVE to buy E-gas (or eventually E-diesel) is meaningless, no matter what they say. They are going to buy whatever is available and whatever the delivery truck has on board.

Fuel supply companies are not going to bother producing/supplying non-E in any State that requires it for road vehicles because probably more than 99.9% of all gas pumps are for road vehicles. It doesn't make any commercial sense to produce nonE gas for a totally insignificant number of marina pumps. I suspect that the lawmakers know that very well..."Let's not require it at Marina's, that will keep those people quiet and they won't be able to get non-E anyway so it'll look like we're on their side but had no control over it!" You notice there is no legislation REQUIRING that non E-Gas be delivered to marinas?

The fact is that the percentage of people actually affected - Boat owners with FG tanks of the old resin - probably isn't even a measurable fraction of 1% of total users nationwide.

So the Fed/State/local Gov and the marinas are going to worry about a few of us old Hatt-ers that have FG tanks? Right...

 

[Boatsb]

Add to it the classic cars, Aircraft and other special groups and we may reach that 1%.

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Because of the risk of phase separation, E10 is blended at the loading rack. This means that the delivery truck loads on straight gasoline and then loads the proper amount of ethanol. A supplier (jobber) will always be able to pick up straight gas at the rack. Since the tank trucks are compartmentalized, they will only have to load what the marina orders and can load the rest of the truck for other deliveries.

This is good. Now all you guys in FL have to do is really push those marinas to order the proper gas.

 

[67hat34c]

Fuel trucks that deliver only to marina's such as those with PropTect will surely not fill with e10. Only way they would try to cram it down our throat is if they are being subsidised to sell the stuff.

Well All i can say is that so far I have one supplier stating they will never deliver e10 to the marina's.

So I guess buying the Kit that Krush is talking about will be a good idea for me.

 

[MikeP]

"Because of the risk of phase separation, E10 is blended at the loading rack."

I didn't know that, Sky. I thought it was blended at the refinery and shipped through the pipes already mixed.

Well, with that in mind then it IS possible that marina's can get non-E without much trouble. That's a good thing!

 

[67hat34c]

Mike P part of your prior post may be right on point. I got another e mail from the Florida Legislature, here is part of it.

"At this point, I am not certain. It will depend on market forces unless
further governmental actions intervene. Some argue that in areas with a
substantial demand for unblended regular gas, the market will respond
with adequate supplies to meet demand. However, some distributors argue
that they do not have the necessary storage tanks to maintain supplies
of regular gas at 87 octane for distribution and gas at less than 87
octane for purposes of blending. I have also heard reports that some
gas pipelines are being devoted to less than 87 octane, and as a result
creating shortages of regular unblended gas.

At this point, it appears the market is responding in some areas in such
a way as to limit the availability of unblended regular gas at services
stations. I do not know if this is a problem at marinas. Of course,
even if it is not affecting marinas, many boaters prefer not to buy gas
for their boats at marinas due to the added cost.

At the end of session, a decision was made to hold off taking action --
due to added costs distributors opposed the requirement in the amendment
and retailers favored it -- until more is known about the reaction of
the market and the actual availability of regular unblended gas. I
believe the Department of Agriculture will be able to inform the
Legislature regarding these questions. I will check with them to find
out what they are observing."

 

[67hat34c]

Here is the reply i got from the test kit company:

The tester is designed to be easy to use. You add water to the tester to the "water" line, then add fuel to be tested to the "gas" line, place stopper in end of tester and shake until thoroughly mixed. Let mixture "settle". then look at side of tester. If the water fluid line has risen within the mixture the gauge on the side of the tester will tell you the percentage of alcohol in the fuel. If there is no alcohol in the fuel, the water fluid part will remain at the water line.

The tester can be used until you break it or ages to the point the heavy duty plastic cracks. You may have to replace the rubber stopper if you lose it or the rubber ages beyond a useful age. But we do have replacement stoppers that can be purchased for $3.00 each.

You can order by emailing me your charge card number with expiration date OR call me at 920-426-4843 OR make a check payable to EAA for $15 per tester (includes priority shipping) and mail it to: EAA Flight Center, Tester, 1145 W 20th Ave, Oshkosh, WI 54902.

Thank you for your interest!
Debi Walker, EAA #710150
Acft Maint/Operations
Autofuel STC Coordination
EAA-The Spirit of Aviation

 

[Boatsb]

Go to a chemical supply house and get a 100ML graduated beaker and a stopper or two. My first concern is how to dispose of the tested fuel legally. Thats why I was looking for a reagent based strip.

 

[Genesis]

How to dispose of it?

Toss it on the grass

 

[Boatsb]

How to dispose of it?

Toss it on the grass

I believe that would incur a large fine. No Marina would allow that either. Per the EPA it is not allowable to pour gas, water contaminated with fuel ( gas or diesel ) or wast fuel or lube oil on the ground. I hope no one takes that one seriously.

My suggestion would be to offer it to your neighbor with a searay or bayliner

 

[MikeP]

Yeah, I agree, you can't toss it on the grass! That's just terrible!

I read or heard about the following methods somewhere but, of course, I do not endorse such actions and am shocked, I tell you, SHOCKED that people would do this and I repeat it only as an educational reference:

Dump the gas or solvent on the gravel in the parking area at the marina.

No gravel parking area? Toss it under your car. By time you move the car it will have evaporated.

The paper towel method - take the container of gas/solvent, stuff it with paper towels which will absorb the liquid. Toss the container in the dumpster. The contents won't spill and again, it will all evaporate and leave nothing.

Yes, I know, it's appalling but it's what some people apparently do without the slightest bit of concern.

Obviously the correct method is to contact the appropriate environmental office/agency and follow their directions to properly dispose of the gas/solvent. After all, they are here to help us and our tax money is paying them to do so...

 

[Boatsb]

proper disposal requires you put the liquid in a suitable container and label it before bringing it to the local hazmat disposal site in your area.

 

[67hat34c]

Dump it in the homer bucket and let it evaporate.