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ethanol related issue?

  • Thread starter Thread starter UNIQUE_NAME
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Mike has a good Idea for the access hole which would help for the coating, In the older tanks 4 hole will get you into each baffle area. But what I see as the major problem is the cleaning. How can you get the tanks clean so that a epoxy or something will bond??
 
i just spoke to a yard who has pulled the tanks from a bertram (he has done 4 or 5 this year) dickson's marina in east patchogue ny.
his description is as follows:
when they opened up the tank they found wherever there were stress cracks in the interior, for some reason the top seemed more prone, the resin was being desolved. they took core samples from the tank and found parts of the top had been reduced to matting. i asked about coating the interior, his response was, once the tank has been compromised you couldn't guarranty the tanks integrity. he has been replacing them with aluminum powder coated tanks.
 
We have a 1986 36C with gas engines. When we bought the boat I noticed a Hatteras label next to the fuel filler that says "Leaded gasoline only". I started researching as I am my own mechanic. Turns out the engines, valves etc. are no problem and Hatteras couldn't tell me why that label is trhere. After reading the boat's manual I came to a statement that says that Hatteras is unsure of the effects of unleaded gasoline on the resin in the tanks and therefore recommends leaded gasoline. Jump ahead 20 years and that whole thing is a joke. I have left the label as a coversation piece. I can't believe that 10% ethanol is going to affect a well cured,(20 years), polyester layup. We live in the Detroit area and have not asked about the ethanol content. All the great lakes marinas sell only mid grade 89 octane gasoline. Does that eliminate ethanol?? I am not having any problems. Should I worry???
 
I'd be interested in anything you guys find out about this since I just got done spending tons of money on two rebuilds twice. I have a 1985 32FB with a big fiberglass tank. Was this the "trouble" formulation that ethanol "eats up"? If you find an alternative to ripping up the floor please enlighten me.
 
i can't comment on a 1986 vintage resin. when i called hatteras they acknowledged i had a problem with 1973 vintage. i didn't ask the question of what year might be safe. the bertrams having problems are from the same era as me, late 60's early seventies. call hatteras and see what they say. let us all know.
 
jackman:
when you pulled apart your motors were the intake valves, intake manifold and carb coated with either a black goo or black hard varnish like substance?
 
Maynard,

I own a gas station in Michigan and I can tell you that Marathon/Speedway has a monopoly on all fuel sold in MI. They own 11 of the 13 loading racks in the state and they set the retail as well as the wholesale price. That being said, the feds are giving a 5.1 cent per gallon rebate on all fuel with a 10% ethanol content, of which Marathon keeps 3.1 cents. Anyway, most, if not all gasoline in MI has 10% ethanol in it and you don't have to post it on the pump.
 
Well for what I have heard the resin was change in the late 70s early 80's so Jackman might be safe??? As for the posting of it on pump that changes State to State so everyone will have to check there own. Maybe someone should star a tread and post the results for there state. We all now know N.Y is a YES!!!! Well I will start another Thread for it. Also check to see if it is used all year or only winter time?
 
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Agree with Dan on tank coating. How could you possibly clean it and scuff the surface to allow proper bonding. I would think that it would be a disaster to have stuff delaminating inside the tank.
 
As far as which states use ethanol - figure that if any state isn't at present, they're eventually going to...
 
Sure are some enlightning thoughts about ethanol. I am hearing that the resin was re-formulated in the early 80's. If that is the case then those of us who have mid 80's boats should be OK??? I was interested in the comments about aluminum tanks. We built and raced fuel dragsters in the 60's and had a real problem with corroded aluminum tanks. We thought it was the nitro-methane and later discovered that the real source of corrosion was the alcohol that was used to reduce the percentage of nitro methane. I know alcohol is really corrosive to aluminum. Maybe we need stainless tanks??
 
cant use stainless in a boat, it cracks. there are special Aluminum Alloys for marine use.
 
Monel is the best but you better have DEEP Pockets.
 
Aluminum is ok PROVIDED there is no WATER in the fuel.
 
that NEVER happens with marine fuel....
 
unique,

I didn't notice anything unusual on the intake when dissasembling the motors. The valves seemed fine as well....I have racor filters and then the OEM filter mounted to the engine. They, of course picked up lots of stuff, especially when I found that the o-ring on the tank fill line was failing and water was getting in.

I'd like to have a statement from Hatteras, since we have representation on this board, as to which years these formulations were used, the alcohol sensative one and the improved version. I'd just like to nip the problem before it kills my new engines. If I don't need to replace the tanks I'l like to save the money and pain/depression of cutting open my cockpit floor.

While were at it...what kind of paint do you use to paint these fiberglass tanks on the outside? Would Bilgecote be okay? My tank paint is peeling from age.
 
I would not want aluminum tanks. There are very few aluminum tank installations that are proof against corrosion and leakage- especially dangerous with gasoline. Aluminum tanks are hard to check on and are prone to leakage both from inner and outer corrosion. If I had to replace tanks, I would rather get plastic or fiberglass tanks. As to how to recoat a tank: I would saw the top off, clean out the tank, recoat the inside (probably with West epoxy or something like it), then glass the top back on. The HARD part would be taking up the deck and getting the tank out, but if you are in for tank replacements the deck has to come up anyway.
It is worth mentioning here what Tom Slane has done on two 36Cs that he has done over: remove the old Hatteras tanks, take up the deck, and replace the two longitudinal glass tanks with one transverse 375gal tank that is sort of V-shaped on the bottom and sits right aft of the rear bulkhead. Both engines and genset feed from this tank. There are some advantages:
-more fuel capacity
-less trim change as you burn off fuel
-the space aft of the tank can be reconfigured to provide a bigger lift-out fish box which allows very good access to the rudder gear, trim tab pump, etc. It makes a huge difference. Getting under the aft deck of a 36C for maintenance chores is not easy, as any 36C owner knows. This conversion also stiffens the deck as there are fewer hatches cut into it. Note that there is still room for the batteries if you want (where the livewell used to be) and/or storage area.
Tom makes this tank, which makes me wonder if he could make other size tanks as well. I don't know one way or the other, but if you need replacement tanks it would be worth a call to Slane Marine.
 
Great info Jim
One of my good friends has a 34C I think that Idea might work for him. I will have him call Tom and Let everyone know if it will fit. The 36 and 34 are very similar. The only thing I don't understand is the box space there is plenty of room for one with the original tanks. I have done this on mine and a friends 36 and still have the molds if you ever need another project.
 
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jackman:
the symptoms we have (black goo) you would have seen at once. there would be no question if you had it. it is like someone pumped permatex
into the upper engine.

dan:
when you call tom could you ask him if he has used his tanks for any gas boats and if he has any molds for the aft cabin 150 gallon models.
thanks.
 
Called Hatteras this morning re: the resin used in my tanks (87 40' dc) and spoke with Chuck in service. He is trying to track down the date they switched from the noncompatable resin with ethanol to one which was compatable. Doesn't know if Hatteras tracked that or not but said he will get back to me next week. Will let all know my findings as soon as I hear. Keeping fingers and toes crossed!!!!!!
 

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