Dripless Rudder seals

[George]

Anyone have any experience switching out the rudder packing for dripless rudder seals on a 1985 45' Hatt? Looking for advise and how much work it was.
Thanks
George

 

[Fanfare]

You have to pull the shafts back from the transmission to get the dripless seals onto the shafts. Also you end up replacing the entire stuffing box with the one to match the seals. That's a really big hole for in-water service! Do it next time the boat is hauled.

I have had the Tidesmarine seals (www.tidesmarine.com) for probably 10 years now and have not even had to replace one yet although each shaft has two replacements mounted. The installation has to be done while the shaft is pulled back to get them over the end. I went with Tidesmarine because Hatteras now uses them.

 

[George]

Thanks, already have shaft seals, looking at doing my Rudders now.

 

[GOLE IV]

Close to five years without Issue, Just replace the packing nut ,with this assembly.

 

[TopHattandTails]

Just had my mechanic drop my rudders and replace seals. Currently have dripless packings. Stbd seal was on its way out and starting to drip. Turns out the replacement seals that arrived were POS low gade metal. Would have been destroyed within weeks of salt water. Had the mfg make a run of 10 of high quality synthetic seals. Once I find out the mfg, size, etc, I'll have 7 extras available in about 2 weeks, in case anyone else will run into this project...

 

[Tinker]

I just replaced my 20 year old tides rudder seals on a 45c. I went back with the traditional type seal with a newer style synthetic packing rope. Nothing against the tides seal. I mean they lasted 20 years with no maintenance. It was the horizontal support the rope packing gives the rudder and i felt they would rattle less. The rubber hose follows the rudder on my driples. And the ability to service it in the water without having to drop the rudders. There was not enough room between the seal and the rudder board to service it with the dripless seals. That made me go with the old rope and packing style.

 

[George]

Perhaps I should have been more clear. Looking for specific part numbers from either Tides, or PSS for the rudder ports which are on a 1985 45' Hatteras. Would like to know if there is enough room ffor the dripless boot with the location of the rudder table. Would like to know where you ran your source of water seal water from etc.

 

[Boatsb]

George do you do a lot of turning real fast? Rudder seals do not need water to cool them as there is not enough friction to build up heat. My old style rudder packing glands with the waxed packing doesn't leak a drop.

 

[GOLE IV]

The rudder seal on the photo is from tides type j in a 45C , 1973.
You do not need a water source for the rudder.
It is about 1 inch higher than the standard nut to press the packing, but check the catalog for your specific rudder pipe.
I would no go back to packing again. I have one spare seal install that can be change in the water, but I think will turn many years before need to change
One advice is to change the upper bearing and the lower sleeve bearing inside the rudder pipe when do the upgrade, and will forget forever of water intrusion on the rudders

 

[George]

George do you do a lot of turning real fast? Rudder seals do not need water to cool them as there is not enough friction to build up heat. My old style rudder packing glands with the waxed packing doesn't leak a drop.

Not sure how much turning goes on at cruise with the autopilot on. Typically 3 hour runs at 28 knots to the canyon and back. If they don't come with a cooling line like the shaft seals, I am a happy man. No winterizing, points of failure etc. My current teflon packing is 2 seasons old, but there is no doubt it's binding up my system.

 

[George]

The rudder seal on the photo is from tides type j in a 45C , 1973.
You do not need a water source for the rudder.
It is about 1 inch higher than the standard nut to press the packing, but check the catalog for your specific rudder pipe.
I would no go back to packing again. I have one spare seal install that can be change in the water, but I think will turn many years before need to change
One advice is to change the upper bearing and the lower sleeve bearing inside the rudder pipe when do the upgrade, and will forget forever of water intrusion on the rudders

Great, Thanks for the help and yes, I will change the upper bearing.

 

[Boatsb]

Not sure how much turning goes on at cruise with the autopilot on. Typically 3 hour runs at 28 knots to the canyon and back. If they don't come with a cooling line like the shaft seals, I am a happy man. No winterizing, points of failure etc. My current teflon packing is 2 seasons old, but there is no doubt it's binding up my system.

There is something wrong if the tef packing is binding the system. more often than not its the bearings not the packing.

 

[George]

There is something wrong if the tef packing is binding the system. more often than not its the bearings not the packing.

I replaced the rudder cutless bearings 2 years ago and had new packing put in. last weekend, I removed the rudder table collar and mounting flange so the rudder was only in the shaft tube with the packing, so I deduced it had to be the packing. The cutlass rudder bearing shouldnt cause binding. Thoughts?

 

[Boatsb]

I replaced the rudder cutless bearings 2 years ago and had new packing put in. last weekend, I removed the rudder table collar and mounting flange so the rudder was only in the shaft tube with the packing, so I deduced it had to be the packing. The cutlass rudder bearing shouldnt cause binding. Thoughts?

Properly installed and tightened goretex packing on 2.5 in shafts allows me to turn it by grabbing the shaft with my bare hand. Rudders are no tighter and in fact usually much smaller so they have less resistance. Did you use dry ice on the cutlass bearing? It is possible to compromise the bond and cause the rubber to let go and bind. There are numerous things that can cause the trouble. have someone look at it when you haul the boat.

 

[George]

Properly installed and tightened goretex packing on 2.5 in shafts allows me to turn it by grabbing the shaft with my bare hand. Rudders are no tighter and in fact usually much smaller so they have less resistance. Did you use dry ice on the cutlass bearing? It is possible to compromise the bond and cause the rubber to let go and bind. There are numerous things that can cause the trouble. have someone look at it when you haul the boat.

thanks Scott. I'm having the mechanic who did the work for me 2 years ago, take a look at it today or tomorrow. I could not turn the rudder by hand, and barely using the rudder arm attached to the shaft. Thanks again for your help

 

[George]

Well, a few weeks ago, I pulled it all apart again. There was a real sticky green substance which I believe comes from the teflon or so I'm told which was binding up everything. I got to the point, I just recieved in new Tides Marine dripless rudder system and hoping to start installation this weekend.
wish me luck. Bought a new high water alarm system as well just in case.

 

[saltshaker]

Don't forget to check the triangle shaped rudder support plate that mounts on the rudder table. When I rebuilt my rudders both of those plates were worn out.

 

[George]

Thanks Jack
I purchased new Rudder Table bearings as well so the triangle rudder plates will soon be for sale.
The goo seemed to be some sort of wax. I tried about every solvent with no success so I took a knife and scraped it off, and then used some sand paper to clean out the rest. ugly stuff. More to come on this project. if anyone is interested in some used bronze rudder parts, send me a note

 

[George]

Rudder bearing project complete. Amazing results that I can steer the boat using my palm now.