Delicate subject.......

[oscarvan]

OK, so there's a few of us "in the hunt" here.

There's been some covert references to boats and their surveys......

People visit boats, and report back.... sort of?

Is there a mechanism where we can benefit from each others efforts...without getting into each others way?

We can save each other from duplicating effort, but if there's a cherry we all want to get there first......

A FB page?

Just throwing this out there.

Tell me to shut up if this is a bad idea.....

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Build it and they will come (or not). Seriously, start your page or site and see if you get any takers.

 

[34Hatt]

Very Interesting like Sky said build it they we come

But you will piss off some mostly sellers and brokers but thats just a guess

 

[magnawake]

Whose Face Book would this be for the buyer? The problem is sorta like Yelp, an app on your phone or Active Captain is depends on peoples opinions. Peoples opinions vary wildly at most things. You can take reviews on Active Captain and take a tally of all post and weed out the bottom 10% and top 10%. Most of the reviews are pretty accurate. With boats that are for sell its gonna be much worse. Most people in search of buying a boat dont know what they are looking at. They like Sea Ray because they have heard about them. Just like when I bought my 43 MY, I knew nothing what so ever. I heard Hatteras had a good name and I knew from looking on this forum I could get help if I needed it and boy didnt I need help. Pascal was the guy who gave me lots of help in the very beginning stages. Then I bought our boat without knowing much of anything. The reason I say this is that most people dont know their heads from hole in the ground. Do you want to count on their opinions about what condition the boat is in? Is this what you had in mind?

 

[Finalee]

Novel idea. I think if you find one you like, better get it under contract. We had a perfect example recently here of how a Cream Puff goes fast.Maynards's.

 

[bobk]

There are some surveyors who will for a small fee 'look over' a boat and report it's general condition. The idea is to decide if it is worth travelling to have a look see. Others on various forums have done the same as a favor for fellow lookers.

Bobk

 

[oscarvan]

Thanks for the responses. Yes, the "evaluations" would be highly subjective. And yes, some sellers would not take kindly to criticism, ESPECIALLY if it's not well founded......

Hmmmm, will have to think about this some more.

Don't mind traveling. As an aviator I don't pay. Last hunt (for the Catalina 42) I had a few brokers pick me up at the airport, to drop me back off there 4 hours later. I know, cheating right?

 

[rsmith]

You seem to be an exspurt. And since your a birdman and fly for free you could fly around and report back on your FB page all the dirt on these floating gems. Maybe a couple duck face selfies From the pigs with lipstick.

 

[oscarvan]

You seem to be an exspurt. And since your a birdman and fly for free you could fly around and report back on your FB page all the dirt on these floating gems. Maybe a couple duck face selfies From the pigs with lipstick.

Not an expert on Hatties, by a long shot. Heck just delving into the matter. Reason I'm here, reading page after page, and asking a lot of questions. But I have been messing with boats all my life, hands on, and I can look over a boat and ascertain it's general condition on the cherry to dog scale. Not going to profess to be a surveyor. And yes, I would look at a boat locally for someone. Not going to charge for that. A fine bottle of something won't be turned down though.

 

[sweet red]

Not an expert on Hatties, by a long shot. Heck just delving into the matter. Reason I'm here, reading page after page, and asking a lot of questions. But I have been messing with boats all my life, hands on, and I can look over a boat and ascertain it's general condition on the cherry to dog scale. Not going to profess to be a surveyor. And yes, I would look at a boat locally for someone. Not going to charge for that. A fine bottle of something won't be turned down though.

Just passed on a 58 ft Bertram in Wilmington after investing $$$$ in extensive survey. If owners and yacht brokers are honest in their representations, then an open book on survey results shouldn't be an issue. I WISH such a page existed. As has been mentioned before on this forum, we often chase the same boats, (like ships that pass in the night....had to go there...). "not right for me", doesn't necessarily mean not right for someone else. To collaborate and share info, keeps everybody honest, and creates a more educated consumer. That being said, Anyone interested in pursuing the Bertram "Naughty Naughty", send me a private message. It was not right for me. I am happy to share what I know in hopes the favor comes back around. Yup...Brokers and owners might be P.O'd. But had the Broker/Owner accurately portrayed this vessel in its true light, I'd be $4K richer right now.

 

[Freeebird]

Going to the time and trouble to look at a misrepresented boat is one thing, but going to the expense to survey such a boat is another. It would be an interesting concept to share surveys on boats where the sale was never consummated, but I would have to think those instances are fairly rare from a percentage standpoint as the price is usually negotiated based on the findings. Anybody know of any source for statistics on such a thing?

It would seem to me that brokers and/or sellers would be required (at least ethically) to disclose, if asked, whether or not a boat had been recently surveyed and was rejected on the basis of that survey. Otherwise, one would think they could be liable for failure to disclose known defects. I wonder what the record is for numbers of surveys on the same boat before it finally sells.

 

[sweet red]

Going to the time and trouble to look at a misrepresented boat is one thing, but going to the expense to survey such a boat is another. It would be an interesting concept to share surveys on boats where the sale was never consummated, but I would have to think those instances are fairly rare from a percentage standpoint as the price is usually negotiated based on the findings. Anybody know of any source for statistics on such a thing?

It would seem to me that brokers and/or sellers would be required (at least ethically) to disclose, if asked, whether or not a boat had been recently surveyed and was rejected on the basis of that survey. Otherwise, one would think they could be liable for failure to disclose known defects. I wonder what the record is for numbers of surveys on the same boat before it finally sells.

Excellent point, freebird. I can tell you with recent info (today), yacht brokers on boats "B" and "C" are both telling us "Ill have to check with the owners, or "Ill have to check with the previous buying candidate". Alledging they do not have access to the survey results. I can tell you, we supplied the listing broker full copies of the hull and engine surveys. I wait with interest to see if allegations in the current listing change based on this "newly discovered" info. You gotta wonder what causes a buyer to walk after such an investment. Kinda speaks for itself. Very sad. The boat is an icon, and should be treated with greater reverence.

 

[oscarvan]

It would seem to me that brokers and/or sellers would be required (at least ethically) to disclose, if asked, whether or not a boat had been recently surveyed and was rejected on the basis of that survey.

First thing I ask when I call is when the last known survey was. Called recently on a 53MY, which the owner was "refitting". Broker was kind enough to be straight up and send me a survey from 2005. Ironically the surveyor was the same that surveyed a boat for me in that part of the world when we lived there 20 years ago.

The survey was a sad read. It needed EVERYTHING, nothing worked, everything leaked. Engine hours unknown (Hobbs meters dead) and, there was "significant water intrusion in the FB sole"..... this was TEN years ago. Broker states the owner is going to fix it. A little late in my book.

If he spent a fortune replacing all the broken stuff since 2005 AND another fortune fixing the deck the boat MAY be worth what he's asking for it. Right now it's a dog and he is in denial.

Oh, in 2005 it appraised for 200K.......

 

[Freeebird]

Excellent point, freebird. I can tell you with recent info (today), yacht brokers on boats "B" and "C" are both telling us "Ill have to check with the owners, or "Ill have to check with the previous buying candidate". Alledging they do not have access to the survey results. I can tell you, we supplied the listing broker full copies of the hull and engine surveys. I wait with interest to see if allegations in the current listing change based on this "newly discovered" info. You gotta wonder what causes a buyer to walk after such an investment. Kinda speaks for itself. Very sad. The boat is an icon, and should be treated with greater reverence.

If they don't disclose issues your survey revealed, I would kick some... uh, sand. Might even be fun to set up a straw purchaser, buy the boat, then sue them for fraud if they fail to disclose the known issues.

 

[foleyjt]

So if a potential buyer decides to invest in a survey, it's the potential buyer's survey. He is under
no obligation to share HIS survey with the seller, or the seller's broker. If asked when the last
survey was done on the boat, the seller does not necessarily have to share that a potential buyer had a survey done if he never saw it correct? Same holds for the Seller's broker if he never saw it?

At what point does a seller or seller's broker have to identify that a potential buyer had the boat
surveyed? Only if they were given a copy of the survey?

 

[sweet red]

Saying you "don't know" would be a blatant lie. You know if your boat was surveyed. You know if the deal fell through due to discovery. The buyer does own the survey. But undisputably, the next potential buyer is at far less risk of being taken advantage of...of wasting good $$$...if I am willing to share my findings. I consider it part of my due diligence to discover everything I can. Including prior survey results. It's a great place to start from. Even if the survey was done 3 to 5 years ago as in the case of our back up boats. If the prior identified issues have been resolved, then why would a seller not fully disclose? These are not isolated events. We've had more than 1 seller refuse (or conveniently can't find) to disclose their last survey results after we provide an initial purchase offer. Big red flags.

 

[krush]

There is "what's right", what's legal, and what's practical. It's in one's best interest to use their gut and get the street smarts. I just look around with my own eyes. A past survey may be useful, but probably not in most cases as often times it doesn't reflect the current condition of the boat.

 

[oscarvan]

There is "what's right", what's legal, and what's practical. It's in one's best interest to use their gut and get the street smarts. I just look around with my own eyes. A past survey may be useful, but probably not in most cases as often times it doesn't reflect the current condition of the boat.

No but it is another crumb in the trail. Trying to figure out a boat's history, especially when you're talking 40-50 year old boats becomes part of the due diligence.

 

[MadHatter53]

I agree with everything you guys are saying. That's why we have this wonderful website !!

 

[Freeebird]

So if a potential buyer decides to invest in a survey, it's the potential buyer's survey. He is under
no obligation to share HIS survey with the seller, or the seller's broker. If asked when the last
survey was done on the boat, the seller does not necessarily have to share that a potential buyer had a survey done if he never saw it correct? Same holds for the Seller's broker if he never saw it?

At what point does a seller or seller's broker have to identify that a potential buyer had the boat
surveyed? Only if they were given a copy of the survey?

You're one who is supposed to be answering these questions, not asking them!

I personally find old surveys to be very revealing and extremely helpful. Seriously, if you have a survey that's say, five years old, and items that were noted then are still in the same shape, it's a pretty safe bet that there will be even more wrong with it now. At that point you can begin negotiations based on the old survey to test the waters to see if it's worth the expense to have a new one.

If I'm ever dumb enough to buy another old boat, I'll negotiate the cost of the survey into the deal. If it reveals a bunch of crap that neither I nor the seller are aware of, the seller will pay for the survey unless he's willing to address the problems. Why should I spend a bunch of money to point out things wrong with someone else's boat unless they plan to fix them or will adjust the selling price accordingly?