David Pascoe, Our Champion

[SKYCHENEY]

He ain't my Champion.

As far as his facts are concerned he stroked with a very broad and dirty brush. It is not who the manufacturer of the boat is, or was, but the designer. And not only the designer but the particular design. There are several models of the go fast or fast cruise boats that are far better than certain models of Hatts and or Berts, when it comes to going slow.

Lets say there is 3'-5' swells fairly close together and you must run in a beam sea. I know of several makes and models that everyone would rather be in than a Hatt. Don't believe me go try it out for hours and see. I've been there done that. Old Pascoe don't really know what the heck he is even talking about in this case, just sounds like a French man. LOL

garyd

I agree that it's hull design that matters. How about other Hargrave designs? Most of those should be good too. What go-fast models are you referring too?

 

[garyd]

Just about any 24 degree deadrise go fast is fine going slow. The center of gravity is way low and will cruise at 8-10 knots all day long using very little fuel. Put a couple of diesels in a go fast say 38'-44' and at 8-10 kts you would see at least 2.5 to as high as 5.0 NMPG. Depending on the power. You could probably cruise at 2 NMPG at 22-25 kts.

The go fasts are actually very economical in go slow mode. Its when you want to go 70-90 MPH you get in trouble fuel economy wise.

Yes they are built lightwieght but there are quality boats out there. They compensate for the light weight by an agressive deadrise 24 degrees a sharpe entry and a low center of gravity.

Some of the boats he thinks would make good go slow boats will not! Unless you go slow in the intercoastal, then heck they are all pretty good. LOL

garyd

 

[SKYCHENEY]

I just wanted to hear some examples of what you think might be good. Brands? Models?

 

[Walter P]

About 10 - 15 years ago I did a few deliveries from NJ to Fla. One was a new 40' Silverton Aft cabin with GAS engines.

I picked it up at the dealer in So. Jersey and drove it to Aventura Florida. Other than one of the transmissions screwing up by overheating a couple of times (dealers along the way did repairs), we had no problems and in fact I was pleasently surprised by how well it handled sea conditions.

The fact that it took the sea conditions very well and handled well in tight docking situations was still not enough to imply that it was anywhere near Hatteras quality. Very few production boats are worthy of comparision to a Hatteras, but for specific uses they have their place I suppose. The main thing that bothers me about some of the owners of some of these things is when they have the audicity to think that their Sea Rags etc are as good as a Hatt. Go figure.........

Walt

 

[Boss Lady]

I have commented upon Pascoe many times in the past and feel compelled to contribute my perspective again. Pascoe is human and has strong opinions about boat design and contruction. I happen to agree with him 99% of the time. He presents his views with plenty of explanation, if not colorful analogies. He has high expectations for our industry and will call a spade a spade in a heart beat. He provides the unvarnished truth, and his colorful opinions. Feel free to disagree with him, but at your own peril, both physically, and financially. The more experience one gains the closer your opinions will align with David's. He is of course falling into the grumpy old man category as time goes by, however, offers a tremendous amount of wisdom for those who seek it. I don't think anyone an go wrong using his information as a guide and them making your own decisions about how much of it applies to the boat or situation at hand. Almost everyone in the marine industry has a vested interest in protecting their own interest, engine manufacturers, boat builders, brokers, magazine publishers, boat owners, etc. at the expense of the poor boat owner or potential new owner. The abysmal industry practices used in boat construction, which are vehemently defended to prevent any type of regulation through their self professed "self regulation". What a crock of crap, when their is money to be made. Please tell me what the industry does to "self regulate"???? I can't think of anything Pascoe wrote that was off base. His opinions and pet peeves can be worded strongly, but I don't see anything that is off base. I see his works as a one man effort to bring better industry practices into effect to make better engineering, design, seaworthyness, and craftsmanship so that boats are safe, reliable and provide good value to buyers. He has hounded certain manufacturers for their business practices, such as Stink Ray, and with good reason. Again, I happen to agree with him a lot, so I guess I am more willing to ignore/forgive his faux pax's from time to time. Some people are easily offended and then will throw the baby out with the bath water. Where I still see Pascoe's glass as half full.

Happy boating.

 

[MikeP]

I totally agree with Chris.

Disagreeing with Pascoe re BOAT maintenance, performance, problems, etc is fine...but I would ask is "What experience does a disagree-er have to support his/her view as opposed to Pascoe's?" If it includes the same level of experience, THEN it is certainly worth considering. But his level of experience is virtually impossible to attain if one is not in the same business and for a reasonable length of time.

I have used virtually everything he has said in his boat articles on the net and in his books and several personal phone calls. IMHO if you do everything he recommends, you'd seldom have a boat issue.

 

[garyd]

Sky, well if you want to know specific go fast or fast cruisers. Go fast Cigarette is a high quality boat. Fast cruiser Formula is a high quality boat as is Tiara and Cabo. There are certain models of the other middle of the road brands that will flat surprize you. I remember once when a 32' Wellcraft St Tropez flat performed better than a 44' Viking.

I was in the boating industry for years and have run 100's of different makes and models. Worked for a dealer at one time that handled Hatteras, Bertrum, Viking, Sea Ray, Wellcraft, Carver, Powerplay, Pierson, Hunter. And a few others that I've forgotten, and got to run all of them. I have worked closely with boat designers and helped design a boat. Worked directly for Genmar and Wellcraft. Have ATP and an Engineering degree. Got to spend a day with a Hatteras engineer and run a Hatt through its paces. Spent time with the President and vice president of Hatteras. Spent time with Irwin Jacobs and was given a personal ride/demo by Reggie Fountain. Spent countless hours on the water so much that most of the time I let others drive the boat unless I forget to ask them. LOL

Anybody reading Pascoes article linked in this thread may think ALL Hatteras models will make great slow cruisers and none of the go fast or fast cruisers will make good go slow criuisers which is NOT the truth. My point is for each captain to judge the exact make and model he is thinking about going slow with. That thinking a certain BRAND will be fine for doing what he wants is wrong and will indeed cost you bigtime even if it is a Hatteras. Don't get me wrong I love my Hatteras model 1986 41C. If you ever get a chance read the article about it in Sams archives, but every boat is a compromise.

There are certain years and models of just about every boat brand out there that one would be wise to stear clear of and others that are excellent.

When you walk up to a strange dog, horse, or person, one would be wise to make sure they are safe. Same with every boat: Brand, Make, Model not with-standing.

garyd

 

[Brian Degulis]

Garyd I think your reading much more into it than what the guy actually wrote. What he said was that older Hats are good candidates for running slow because they're heavy and have deep keels. That statement is true then he gave an example with a photo of a boat that is exactly the opposite a boat that won't run well going slow also true. Now that's all the guy said nothing more nothing less of course there are other brands and models that are the same or better running slow but he certainly couldn't list them all in a few paragraphs. I guess to get the list you'll have to buy his next book for $75 LOL. " A one man crusade to improve the boating industry" More like a one man crusade to sell his own product. Like anyone who writes books or blogs sometimes he's wrong and sometimes he goes out of his realm of expertise but in this case and most of the time I think his information is pretty accurate.

Brian

 

[hyperfishing]

Yes, to good fuel economy for gofasts. We have extensively cruised our 30 foot Sonic gofast from NewYork north to Nantucket, and from Miami to Key West, Miami to near Stuart. Also fished it off way offshore, and it makes a fine trolling boat as well. <gg> It does roll quite a bit doing that though.

At a slow cruise of 30 knots, (can't really cruise on plane at less than that), we get about 1.5 miles per gallon on 92 Octane, on stroked out small blocks making 350 HP each. My guess is we are getting better than 3 Miles per gallon at no wake intercoastal speed.

Our 1988 Sonic is very hard to distinguish from a brand new boat. It is super tough, and taken us through horrific sea conditions on occasion. Love it, but would prefer to see it nestled against, or towed behind a big brother Hatteras someday.

 

[Nonchalant1]

Pascoe is almost right re: fuel use, except he far understates the case. He says that "traveling at 9 knots instead of 25 or so usually translates to a 60-70% fuel savings per hour".... but that makes no sense because 9 knots is a 64% decrease in speed, so his example saves zero fuel per mile traveled! The most important measure is fuel used per mile, not per hour, unless you're just on a "booze cruise" for a given amount of time, as opposed to a destination.

However, the reality is much better. In my case, traveling at 9 knots instead of 16 (a 43% decrease in speed) produces a 75% decrease in fuel use (9 GPH vs. 36 GPH) which decreases fuel per mile from 2.2 Gal/NM to 1.0 Gal/NM. At idle speed that drops to less than 0.5 Gal/NM doing 6.3 knots (but it's bad for the engines to run that all day). With stabilizers, the roll is almost zero at 9 knots unless you're in big seas.

Doug Shuman

 

[Boss Lady]

Just to show you that all boats are not the same, my 38 Fountain with triple 250 optimaxes gets 1.5 nm per gallon cruising at 50 mph. Slower or faster causes the fuel mileage to drop.

 

[jim rosenthal]

I think Pascoe is right on most things, but he doesn't have a lot of room for other folks' opinions and he doesn't bother much with manners; if fact, not at all. I think if he was more civil he'd have less of a reputation as a curmudgeon and more people listening to him; he turns some folks off. But he's right way more often than he's not, and he DID have the guts to go after Sea Ray when they were building boats with core rot problems and pretending those boats were structurally sound. Which they were not.

I've only spoken with him once or twice. He's got a lot of experience, and he's smart. Is he as smart as he thinks he is? Well, probably not. Is everyone else as dumb as he thinks they are? Again, probably not. But if you can get past his personality, which is pretty spiky, there's a lot to be learned from him. He'd have a bigger audience if he wasn't such a hard case, but he's old enough to make his own choices. WAY old enough.

 

[Boss Lady]

You haven't lived until you have seen a broker throw up, when Pascoe shows up to do a survey. LOL

 

[Genesis]

Who cares if he's opinionated? I am too - some people like it, some people don't.

The difference between "real" people and those who are "plastic", like most of our society, is that real people don't give a damn if others like them or not.

They call 'em like they see 'em and if you disagree, that's cool - but if you want them to change their mind you're going to have to show them evidence.

 

[MikeP]

Well said!