Crusaders?

[Beckytek]

67hat The aeroquip hose is designated FC 234-06 ID .31" OD .68" Coast guard approved fuel line. I replaced all mine last year $7.25/ft. Ron

 

[Boss Lady]

I would compare both Torque and HP ratings of the 350 vs the 454. The torque does make a difference in economy. Best economy is found usually on the torque peak.

 

[UNIQUE_NAME]

I'm surprised that the 350s didn't do better. My previous boat was a 36 DC Mainship w/350 crusaders. 3000 RPM was around 16; WOT was 26 at 4300 RPM. Boat weighed 20,400 per the boat lift at the marina (I have NO idea if it was even remotely accurate).

i don't remember the mainships i looked at being that heavy.
thoses numbers are closer to a buddies 34 silverton which listed at about 12.5k lbs. i do know the hull on the 1965 34 sedan was about 1 1/4" solid glass. heck the flybridge varied between 1/4" and 3/8" solid glass.

jim

 

[67hat34c]

Capt Eric the small blocks wont work, need big blocks, need the torque.
the new big blocks with EFI should help on efficiency on cruise. new big blocks are 502's.

 

[Capt.Erich]

Just out of curiosity, what engines are you running in your 34?

 

[MikeP]

Per Mainship - http://www.mainship.com/models/previous_models/36dc.htm the 36 DC was 20,000lbs which fits about right with what the marina scale said.

I'm not trying to say that the 350s will work well in the 34 - folks here with them say they won't. But they did work well in the Mainship. The Mainship 40 DC used 454s and it had about the same cruise/WOT figures as the 36 w the 350s.

 

[Boatsb]

From experiance the 4 bolt crusaders outlast the mercs 2:1. I worked at a yard repowering 31 RLDT's for years and the mercs did not hold up as well. The 350 block does not have the torque or the mass to push those boats well and would seriously shorten their life. even the 6L chevy is just too small.

Diesels have torque over HP. Torque makes the prop turn and gets the boat on plane. Gas engines usually have lower torque and do not make it until they get to the higher RPM's.

If I were able to repower with diesels it would be my first choice as the ethanol issue will catch up sooner or later. Short of that the crusaders would be my pick.

 

[67hat34c]

Capt Eric, We have a 34c powered with Crusader Model 350's, They were installed december 1988, These are 454's with 350hp. from time to time you see these for sale from a repower. they are strong motors and very rebuildable. Our boat was just weighed, full gas and water 20000lbs. with the 3 blade set and 1.88:1 Transmissions we cruise at 18kts at around 3200 and 28kts wot. with 4 blade set and clean bottom we got 22k cruise and 33kts wot. bent those props so we are back with 3 blade set again. 4 bladed ones may have been over loading engines, further testing needed

 

[egaito]

Per Mainship - http://www.mainship.com/models/previous_models/36dc.htm the 36 DC was 20,000lbs which fits about right with what the marina scale said.

I'm not trying to say that the 350s will work well in the 34 - folks here with them say they won't. But they did work well in the Mainship. The Mainship 40 DC used 454s and it had about the same cruise/WOT figures as the 36 w the 350s.

Are you sure they were 350 cid engines? Crusader 350's were actually 350 HP engines based on the 454 block. It gets confusing.....

 

[el jeffe]

If you are seriously considering using Crusaders, I recommend that you only go with new engines. My previous boats have both had Crusader engines, 350's. In both cases, similar recurring problems with cutting out, missing and limited runup in rpm occurred. Amongst other normal maintenance issues such as points, exhaust elbows, risers, etc., eventually the rpm cut out starts around 600 hours. After replacing rebuilts 3 times due to mushroomed valve push rods and oil seals put in backward(by Crusader) I switched to a Hatteras with diesels.

If you can afford diesels, it is the only way to go.

 

[67hat34c]

limited high rpm can be caused by the Quatro jet carbs, starving for fuel on top end. others have had this problem and cured with rebuild of the carburator.

 

[MikeP]

It does get a little confusing re engine size on the old Crusaders. We should be referring to them by listing the CID - 350 CID (270HP) 454CID-(350HP)

 

[67hat34c]

MikeP, I know you are anti Quadrajets, Is there any validity in the charge that they run out of fuel at WOT when they are out of whack inside? Had a dock neighbor with Mercs in his Searay, yes Searay, and he experienced this problem and corrected with rebuilds. By the way he is a cool searay owner, Service manager at on of the big Central Fl Ford dealers and he most likely has the best maintained older searay i have ever seen.

 

[Capt.Erich]

I have found a pair of Marine Power 454's with low hours, running gears, shafts, props, controls, and floscans at a very reasonable price. Any thoughts on these?

I have researched the possibility of repowering with diesel. In a perfect world I would do this. But I got the boat for little of nothing and it needs a lot of sweat equity. In order to try to keep her close to "market value" I have opted to repower with gas. This boat will be a stepping stone towards a 41 SF... I hope.

Let me add this... I have contributed to some threads on the "other side" (see "Sticky on Sticky"). My opinoins have only been reaffirmed about the members here. You guys are the best.

 

[Boatsb]

I am not familiar with them specifically. I think they are the european mercs though.

 

[MikeP]

From an internal CARB only point of view - assuming sufficient fuel is being delivered by the fuel syustem - RUnning out of fuel at high RPM is caused by a float level that is too low. Obvioulsy clogged filters, clogged anti-syphon valve, bad fuel pump, etc can cause the problem when the carb is fine.

My biggest complaint re Qjets is that some designer took a fairly simple item - A carburetor - and "upgraded" it by making it needlessly complicated. It's important to understand that the whole reason for the Qjet's being was emissions related - NOT performance related.

THe Q has probably at least triple the parts of a holley, giving it many more reasons to be out of adjustment. Also they are known for the casting problems which make the "epoxy" mod required to get consistent performance (Do a search on QJet + epoxy and something is bound to show up about this). If memory serves, there are 6 locations that have to be epoxied. The oem floats were a disaster; they would fuel-soak and refuse to float properly, causing an overly rich mixture at normal speeds and the inability to idle.

That being said, they can be made to work and work quite well. It's just hard to keep them that way. THe concept is a good one - small primary barrels for low/medium speed with good air velocity which enhance quick acceleration. Then you have the very large secondaries for higher/WOT speeds. Often, howeve, the air valve is incorrectly set so you don't get a good transition and the engine stumbles when the throttle is slammed open. Lots of folks assume this performance is caused by the wrong size jets but it's not. On an air valve secondary carb (most street/marine oem carbs), a properly set air valve will make the engine run nice and sharp, even if the secondary jet is too small. The oem jets in a qjet are fine for nearly any application - there's no need to mess with them.

A holley is far easier to set up and maintain. HOWEVER, I would not bother changing Qjets to a Holleys on an oem engine. You have to change the manifold and the associated choke/throttle linkage. I didn't do it on our previous boat with 350CID crusaders but I spent a lot of time adjusting and fiddling to get them to run right and keep them that way.

So again, you can get a qjet to run very well - just takes a lot more work, adjustment, and maintanance. In addition to any normal carb adjustments and parts, You GOTTA epoxy the bosses, you Gotta put in a new float you gotta set the air valve.

 

[smoothmove]

I have found a pair of Marine Power 454's with low hours, running gears, shafts, props, controls, and floscans at a very reasonable price. Any thoughts on these?
QUOTE]

You might want to investigate some water reversion questions as they relate to Marine Power marinizations. A google search of ["marine power" gm "water reversion"] will give you plenty to read.
Eric

 

[sammidog]

Not only are Crusaders great engines but their company itself is top notch. I bought 2 engines from them. They were shipped in the spring but i did not get them insatalled until fall. In my excitment I saw that all the plugs were pulled in one engine so I assumed(dumb, I know) that all plugs were pulled. Well, you guessed it. They missed the block plug and over the winter it cracked. It was over 1 year since I bought them. I called Crusader expecting them to say "sorry, over 1 year, warranty over" or "not our problem, you should have checked" but no. No questions asked. Send it back to us, we will replace the block and send it back to you. You will have it in 2 weeks. We will pay shipping to. Pretty damn nice in my opinion.

 

[Boatsb]

2 weeks and paid freight. Thats great customer service. Havent heard much of that lately. Its a shame that we are living in a comidity driven world and no service is required for most.

Kudos for Crusader

 

[egaito]

2 weeks and paid freight. Thats great customer service. Havent heard much of that lately. Its a shame that we are living in a comidity driven world and no service is required for most.

Kudos for Crusader

Amen..and this isn't an isolated case....it's stories like this that I've heard over the years that keep them fresh in my mind as a stand-up vendor.