cruise ship list

[67hat34c]

quite a specticle yesterday with the Crown Princess listing 45 degrees. News is saying steering problem but it sounds like stabilizers to me. Money on computer problem causing stabilizers to get wacked out.

had a smilar issue on a smaller boat with bent rudder. Rudder post bent back about 10 degrees or so, boat tracked fine when going strait but when you turned the wheel the thing took a drastic list to one side. This happened on sea trial on boat we were buying.

 

[Karl]

Don't they use gyro-stabilizers on those big boys? I think it went haywire! I hope we're told the real problem.

 

[Genesis]

There are a number of different stabilization systems used on big ships, some passive, some active. All work together.

My guess is that they had a bad "reaction" to each other somehow..... nasty stuff! 45 degrees?! Not sure I believe that - it might have FELT like that, but I bet it wasn't.

 

[Karl]

I heard 24 degrees on the news, and that is close to the maximum it can handle. At 45 degress it would have rolled over.

 

[Avenger]

45 degrees is considered terminal in the ship business. A tanker I was on once had placards on the clinometer at the 45 deg. marks. They said "Unemployment".

 

[Pascal]

that ugly floating thing is so tall, maybe everybody rushed to one side .... some passengers said their windows where under water. article keep mentioning the rudder, not stabilizers but since journalist probably dont't know the difference, who knows...

 

[Genesis]

Unless its an older ship it likely doesn't have rudders - it almost certainly has Azipods. The maneuverability of those vessels is awe-inspiring - I was on one over spring break and was simply freaking astonished at their undocking and close-quarter maneuvering capability.....

Consider tho what happens to the vessel if those go hard-over when under full thrust. They're great for maneuvering but "God Help You" if you were to have a malfunction in their controls put them hard to port or starboard (which can be 90 degrees - effectively perpendicular to the hull!) while under full thrust!

 

[67hat34c]

Pascal, I remember a few years back when the Carnival ship was burning outside of miami, smoke comming from aft deck area. news castors were saying it looks like an engine fire. That would have to be the worlds biggest IO drive i guess.

Anyhow i have seen the same thing regarding steering, it was my guess regarding the stabilizers, they would make more sence to me.

Agree on look of the modern cruise ship.(real big clorox bottle) way top heavy and would be in trouble if broadsided by rogue wave etc. Saw a program about making Queen Mary 2 which is a Cruise Liner, different than Cruise Ship. Liner has lower center of gravity and thicker plating.

 

[Jaxfishgyd]

Hey Pascal,
I was "on your boat" sunday night when you returned to dock. Went to your webcam about 7:40pm and watched it till the bow lines were on. The dog seemed to be having a good time.
And was that you securing the bow lines ? First time my puter has actually updated every 10 secs. when I've clicked in.

 

[67hat34c]

no Azipods, however the ship is brand new, maden voyage this year.

here is propulsion specs.

Propulsion: Two fixed pitch propellers each driven by a Siemens electric propulsion motor of 19 Megawatts maximum output. Propulsion and ship's service power from six Siemens generators, four of 11,520 Kilowatts and two of 8,640 Kilowatts, driven by Wartsila ZA40S diesel engines, four V-16 and two V-12, respectively

 

[Genesis]

Interesting....

I wonder if they had a "hard-over" rudder incident (suddenly, of course) with the stabilizers either offline (perhaps intentionally due to still being in "port mode") or simply overwhelmed.

I would not think you'd get that kind of heel out of such a maneuver, but with these ships being as top-heavy as they are, perhaps you would....

 

[Pascal]

that one is extremely top heavy, I got sea sick just looking at the picture

jax, must have been me... i never let anyone touch my lines

 

[jim rosenthal]

Wouldn't you all think that a ship that big has drive-by-wire rudder controls? A problem in them could put the rudder hard over, which would cause a ship to list like that....

I don't believe that the gyro stabilizers could do that...gyros resist motion, they don't cause it. I don't think they can actively move the ship.

Another possibility is that something went wrong with the thrusters- if it doesn't have azimuthing drives, then it has to have thrusters- might have them anyway- could a sudden thruster malfunction do that?

I'm glad I wasn't on it, frankly. It sounds hair-raising. Not that I have much left to raise.

 

[GaryNW]

The day will come when one of these giant clorox bottles goes down. While I'm sure they carry enough lifeboats/rafts for all aboard, it seems like they would have lots of trouble launching at extreme heel angles.
Gary

 

[Pascal]

from an article in today's paper :

Tuesday's accident was not the first of its kind for California-based Princess, which operates a fleet of 15 ships. In February, the Grand Princess had just departed Galveston, Texas, when a passenger suffered a heart attack and required medical care on shore. The ship made a sharp turn back toward Galveston and listed to one side, causing minor injuries to 27 passengers, Benson said. Princess blamed the captain, who now oversees the San Francisco-based Regal Princess.

Autopilot failure caused a sudden turn and list that injured more than 70 people aboard the Norwegian Sky in 2001. The Sky had been returning to Seattle from an Alaska cruise when a computer error apparently caused the malfunction, according to news accounts. The Coast Guard cleared the ship to continue operating but ordered that its autopilot not be used.

----

ok... so if you turn one his floating hotel too quickly they take a dangerous list ?? nice... maybe it's for protection against iceberg... imagine if Titanic had listed during that fateful turn, maybe she would have hit the berg above water line...

ridiculous ! a 5 year old could tell that these things are top heavy !

 

[Karl]

A latest exerpt from the Sun Sentinal says that auto pilot error is suspect:

"Such vessels routinely use autopilot systems to set a desired course, which is then compared with compasses that direct the rudders. Any miscommunication between the systems could result in an abrupt stop or suddenly wild steering, experts said."

 

[mstailey]

Did anyone catch the interview on Good Morning America yesterday with the lady? All she kept saying was she thought she was going to die. I wonder what she would say if she was a passenger on one of our boats going through either the Moriches or Port Everglade inlets with the tide going out and a "fresh breeze" that had been blowing for a few hours...

Now THAT can make you soil your knickers.....

 

[Genesis]

Hehehehe. I'll take her fishing on my 23 on a somewhat snotty day; rather often when you power up in some such conditions the boat will "catch" a wave and list quite alarmingly towards one side. Its totally normal but seeing the water just a few inches shy of the gunnel until she gets out of the hole can produce interesting reactions in people not used to it

 

[jim rosenthal]

Yes, well there's a world of difference between the kind of boating we do, and the kind of boating they do, where the most important thing is to feel as if you are NOT on a boat. Sort of like sitting in your living room and having someone show you a video of a boat trip....no thanks.

I agree they look top heavy. If you ask me (not that anyone has) the last decent looking liner made was the 'France'. Even the QE2 doesn't look all that great, and the QM2- forget about it. If you look at the photos and models of liners at the Mariner's Museum, etc, you realize just how ugly modern liners and cruise ships are on the outside. Of course, they fit more people in, etc etc. We've had this discussion relative to how boats our sizes look.

Basically, if selling it for a lot of money or squeezing in a lot of folks are your criteria, you are quite likely to end up with an ugly boat. That falls over every now and again...

 

[Angela]

Ahhh...I remember the SS France. I was on her when she was the SS Norway right after they added the two "modern" upper decks. That was the beginning of her ruin. Still, she was a most beautiful ship, but I thought she was prettier before the addition of the decks. The folks who went with me were disappointed when we got to the port and saw what they called "that ugly old tug" and they complained constantly about the boat's movement at sea. I thought all that just made it "real." They would have liked to have been on one of the more modern ships. I've been on several different ships, and the Norway (France) was my favorite. She was a real boat and she looked like one. I'm saddened to hear of her fate. I guess, it's no wonder why I'm sitting here in a Hatt today...another real boat. For a stunning comparison between a real boat and a super clorox bottle, there is a photo here (at the bottom of the page - last photo): http://www.ssmaritime.com/norway23may05.htm

with the caption, “In an almost ridiculous scene, “Norway” left just as "Pride of America" returned from her sea trials. Both ships met right in front of me. It was like seeing ‘Beauty and the Beast.’”



Ang