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Correct place to bleed the fuel rail?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bob Quinn
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 58
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Engine Primer 04.webp
 
So my bleeding issue continues to happen, just wondering if it might be a good step to start replacing the fuel lines between pump and filters etc. Along that note, are these stock items somewhere or do you just take the hoses to an auto parts or napa store and have them remade with the special steel end fittings etc.?
 
Most hoses, as in your picture, have re-usable hose ends.
If you must have new ends, save the old ones and mail them to me please.

Most hydraulic hose shops can make them up while you wait.
 
So the problem is getting worse.

Still trying to track this down. Now I can re prime the system after the boat has been sitting a few days and it will fire right up. But after about 5 minutes it runs out of fuel again and stalls.

I have a push button on the electric pump I use to prime the system and we limped back from the poop deck by running that auxiliary pump. I found fuel / air bubbling out of this sensor mounted to the side of one of the fuel filters, but it just doesn't seem like that would be enough effect to make the thing quit. I'm working on getting the replacement sensor/switch. Does this sensor by any chance control an electric fuel pump in the fuel tanks? If not, what does it do?
Thanks!




20220803_091747.webp20220803_091957.webp
 
Usually a 5lb Hobbs switch, N/O.
Enables the hour meter.
On some installs, it enables engine alarms and voltage regulators.

That switch should be on the pressure side of the fuel pump. even if it was leaking air, the Racor check ball should keep fuel from returning to the tank.

Have you installed a pressure gauge yet. Rite where that switch is or near by would be a good location.
A vacuum gauge on the filter would be good also.
 
Last edited:
Captain Ralph said:
Usually a 5lb Hobbs switch, N/O.
Enables the hour meter.
On some installs, it enables engine alarms and voltage regulators.

That switch should be on the pressure side of the fuel pump. even if it was leaking air, the Racor check ball should keep fuel from returning to the tank.

Have you installed a pressure gauge yet. Rite where that switch is or near by would be a good location.
A vacuum gauge on the filter would be good also.
Click to expand...

I have not installed pressure gage yet. It's been on my mind.It acts like it's starving for fuel.....
(filters have been changed, they might have 10 or 20 hours on them, the Racor style bowl looks clean)

So a vacuum gauge on the filter would prove the fuel pump is trying to draw fuel? what vacuum level should it be pulling? Maybe I have a bad fuel pump.


Is there an auxiliary lift pump in the fuel tanks?
 
I have never witnessed a stock remote lift pump meant for normal engine operation.
A sudden gear pump failure could happen, pretty rare IMO.

How many fuel tanks do you have? Tried the other tank yet?

Have you checked ALL of the valves between the tank(s) and engine?
Checked all hose fittings for fuel drops?

Any work on the engine before your problems came to be?
I remember leaning on a fuel hose once and cracked the contact face in the hose end once.

A vacuum gauge between the lift pump and the Racors may just barely read anything with fresh filters. Dirty filters 5 to 8 in.Hg. More than that there is a problem.
Turning off the supply before the filters and turning the engine over a few seconds will raise the vacuum gauge beyond 15 in.Hg.

Fuel pressure after the fuel pump should be around 15 psi at idle.

Racor makes a nice vacuum gauge that replaces the T handle on top of the filter. May be a pain for permanent installation, great for trouble shooting.

Oh, that O ring on the T handle, Have you checked it lately? They do cut them selves and leak sometimes.
Always use a new O ring when servicing filters and lube with fuel before snugging down.

Where are you located again?
 
Captain Ralph said:
I have never witnessed a stock remote lift pump meant for normal engine operation.
A sudden gear pump failure could happen, pretty rare IMO.

How many fuel tanks do you have? Tried the other tank yet?

Have you checked ALL of the valves between the tank(s) and engine?
Checked all hose fittings for fuel drops?

Any work on the engine before your problems came to be?
I remember leaning on a fuel hose once and cracked the contact face in the hose end once.

A vacuum gauge between the lift pump and the Racors may just barely read anything with fresh filters. Dirty filters 5 to 8 in.Hg. More than that there is a problem.
Turning off the supply before the filters and turning the engine over a few seconds will raise the vacuum gauge beyond 15 in.Hg.

Fuel pressure after the fuel pump should be around 15 psi at idle.

Racor makes a nice vacuum gauge that replaces the T handle on top of the filter. May be a pain for permanent installation, great for trouble shooting.

Oh, that O ring on the T handle, Have you checked it lately? They do cut them selves and leak sometimes.
Always use a new O ring when servicing filters and lube with fuel before snugging down.

Where are you located again?
Click to expand...

Located in Michigan.
No work on the engine before the problem began.
Yes, one of the filters (just caught this yesterday) has a drip after replacing it. Also the pressure sensor has a leak. I have a new pressure sensing showing up tomorrow, a fuel pressure gauge and a vacuum gauge. I will replace the o-ring on the filter (I admittedly did NOT when I changed the filter). I will replace the leaking pressure sensor and see if that does the trick.
It makes more sense now if the fuel pump creates suction as the small fuel drip on the filter would then start to draw air. Every time it stalled and I cracked the line and turned on the primer pump it would push air out. So hopefully that will fix it. If not I will install the gauges. I also have a fuel pump showing up tomorrow - just in case, but it makes more sense now that I understand better how the system works! Thank you for all the help Captain Ralph :)
 
DD fuel pumps are LH & RH.
 
Captain Ralph said:
No, DDC Star gear fuel pumps spin one direction, same as the blower it is mounted on.
Click to expand...

Right. They spin one direction. So you need to make sure the replacement pump's rotation matches that direction.
 
Yes, they are left and right handed. I ordered one and had to specify. I don't think I will need it.
Got my new pressure switch installed. The crimp on the switch was loose when I went to remove it, so it was probably a bigger leak than I thought. I re-seated the filter that was dripping, couldn't find the replacement o-ring, so I just cleaned it up, made sure it was slippery and tightened it good. Firing up in a few minutes to test.
 
Problem solved!

I put the new fuel pressure switch on, reset the one leaking filter and also found the brass fittings I screwed into the filter housing to connect a priming pump had a light leak, so I pulled them apart and put "fuel compatible" pipe dope on them as well.

Problem solved!
Thank you all for the help.

Lesson learned: Besides the fact that it only takes a pin hole to screw up the fuel flow on these things. What appears to have been happening is the small leak(s) while they would be leaks with the motors off, turned into air intakes when the motors are running and the fuel pump is creating suction on the system. So after re-priming the system it would take about 7 minutes for enough air to enter the system and that pocket of air would make its way up to the fuel pump. Once it hits the fuel pump it stalls the motor. That and always use pipe dope! I was under the mistaken impression that with brass you didn't need pipe dope. Not sure where I learned that LOL.
 
drburke said:
Thanks for the update, Bob.

Glad to hear you used the right tape. My lesson learned in a similar situation was the PO used the wrong (white) tape which took a few years to stop sealing. Fixed mine by using the yellow fuel compatible as you did.

DAN
Click to expand...

Yes, I never knew there were different kinds. I actually used the goop instead of the tape, but made sure it was fuel compatible. :)
 
Also, if I am not mistaken, everyone interchanges brass and bronze, but you want bronze and I find it much harder to source than brass, which seems to be available at hardware stores
 
brettportzer said:
Also, if I am not mistaken, everyone interchanges brass and bronze, but you want bronze and I find it much harder to source than brass, which seems to be available at hardware stores
Click to expand...

For diesel brass is ok but in raw water circuits, Bronze only. Brass is guaranteed to fail
 
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