Coolant Additives

[Genesis]

6-71 are dry-liner engines and not succeptable to cavitation erosion.

Try that trick on 92s and over 20 years you'd have holes in the liners.....

 

[Passages]

6-71 are dry-liner engines and not succeptable to cavitation erosion.

So Karl,
Am I OK leaving Prestone in my 6-71's?

 

[Genesis]

I wouldn't...... but the specific issue that will DEFINITELY get you is less of a factor in your engines.

 

[Passages]

OK, I'll drain & save the Prestone. This spring, I'll replace with PowerCool or equilivant and reuse the Prestone for winter storage only.

Ummm...do I need to do the same with my trusty old ONAN?

 

[Genesis]

Should you? Yes. Only diesel-formulated coolants should be used in diesels.

 

[captddis]

Prestone is the all time worst for silicone dropout. I would not use it all in a marine engine.

 

[Passages]

I hate to beat this to death but I'm at home and have in front of me the circa 1976 Detroit Diesel In-Line 71 Operators Manual. Page 76 under ANTIFREEZE states:
...minimum 30% maximum 67% permanent antifreeze must be used when freeze protection is required...an inhibitor system is included in this type antifreeze and no additional inhibitors are required...
...Ethylene glycol base antifreeze is recommended...
...methyl Alcohol antifreeze is not recomended...
...Methoxy Propanol may be used...
...Antifreeze with sealer addititives is not recommended...

Nowhere do I see any warning about using DD specific antifreeze or prohibition against using automotive antifreeze.

What am I missing? Where are the references to DD approved coolants/antifreeze?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

DD has updated their specs and recommendations throughout the years. If you have a 1976 manual it may not reflect todays recommendations. I would check with DD for the latest updates.

 

[MikeP]

The DD service manual for V71 engines published 1989 states:

"When freeze protection is required, use an antifreeze that meets the GM6038M formulation..."

The current info, published on DDs website states that for 53, 71, and 92 series engines (nothing about V's or not) states you should use Power Cool or if not: "Fully formulated ethylene glycol-based, low silicate antifreeze or coolant must meet TMC RP-329 “Type A” requirements."

The specs that antifreeze meets is on the container somewhere. I have no idea of the difference between GM6038M and TMC RP-329.

 

[Genesis]

Here's the link to Detroit's recommendations....

http://www.detroitdiesel.com/Public/brochures/7SE298.pdf

 

[Passages]

Boy, you guys are good.

There it is on page 15 & 22 of the above link - Don't use automotive type antifreeze with high silicates.

Prestone regular is loaded with silicate & phospate while Prestone Extended life is Phosphate & Silicate free but for some reason not approved.

Regardless, I'll be switching coolant during spring commissioning.

 

[REBrueckner]

Yes, Genesis gives the best source on CURRENT Detroit Diesel coolant specs:7SE298.
I spent a few weeks part time several years ago trying to figure out coolant/antifreeze specs... See my earlier post here on specifics..I never did find the differences between various spec numbers but some are for autos, some for light duty trucks and some for heavy duty applications like marine...
If you have 71 series engines, I'd change to a recommended coolant/antifreeze within the next few years, but it is not an emergency as with wet liner engines..

 

[Angela]

OK, I'm going to take a stab at this, hopefully, this weekend. I need to flush my radiator and I understand I am to use DD's Twin-Pack Cleaner which I'll pick up in the morning. I'm going to do clean the heat exchangers using Karl's suggested method. After cleaning the radiator, I have to replace the coolant. I've read this thread several times and just when I think I'm "getting it" I start getting the "glazed over" look.

Karl, if I understood this right, you say that when in areas not subject to freezing, just use distilled water with the proper inhibitor package (which I assume I get at DD) and no anti-freeze at all. But...you also mention that you use Fleet Charge with Fleetguard Heavy Duty Diesel antifreeze base plus distilled water. Aren't you in an area that doesn't freeze? So which mixture is better? Where do you get the Fleetguard products?

Bottom line...I'm in Miami - never going to travel to freezing areas; I have 8v92 (this thread was about the 71 series) and I'd like to do this right. What do I use - antifreeze mixture or distilled water and additives? If I ask DD, one day they tell me the most expensive stuff they sell, and on another day, it's "just use ordinary antifreeze and mix it half and half", but I'm not sure about that either. At Florida DD, I can ask the same question and get a different answer every time. If I don't need to spend the money on gallons of antifreeze, when distilled water plus additives will do, then I'd rather put my money elsewhere in the boat [since you just know I'm going to spend it on the boat anyway ] That said, I want to do the right thing.

And....I can't find "capacity" in any of my sources. How much (gallons) of stuff do I need? Sounds stupid, but give me a break...this is my first diesel boat, but I am very, very interested in understanding her intimately and being able to do my own engine work, or at least being a "hands-on" helper in the engine room. Who needs nail polish!

Thanks,
Ang

 

[Traveler 45C]

From my DD Field Service Data Book: Your 8v92 will hold 29 quarts (a little over 7 gals.) of coolant, but that quantity does not reflect the volume required to fill all of the hoses, HE, etc., just the block.

My 8v71 block will hold about the same, but I need about 15 gals to replace it all after draining the system.

 

[Genesis]

If you want to use Fleetguard anti-freeze with additives, go right ahead. It will have less cooling capacity than water with additives does.

If you're not troubled by temperature creep, this is fine. But - you're getting freeze protection you don't need.

In EITHER CASE you need to monitor the SCA (additive) levels every six months or so and top them up as required.

My personal preference in a NON-FREEZE area is to use distilled water + SCAs. Until I had block heaters (Wolverines) I used the coolant because even though it made the system more sensitive to temperature creep we do occasionally hard-freeze here in February, and it only takes once to trash a $40,000 engine. With the Wolverines I was comfortable running distilled water and switched to it once I had made that addition.

You can run Detroit's Powercool too if you want - that's an antifreeze - but be sure you bend over before you ask how much!

 

[Angela]

I'm leaving all of my bending over moments to receipt of insurance premium statements and dock fees. So, I'll go with the distilled water and SCA's.

It freezes in the panhandle???? I think I'm pretty safe from freezing here in Miami (hope so, anyway...I didn't keep any winter clothes when I moved here). I have walk in engine rooms which might be harder to freeze anyway, especially with all the "comforts of home" stuff running in there creating more heat. I am eagerly looking forward to winter, though, so I can enjoy some fresh air through open windows.

Thanks for clarifying what I need to use. And Traveler, thanks for sharing the capacity amounts.

Ang

 

[Genesis]

Yeah, believe it or not, it does. I've damn near slipped and fell in the water from the frost on the dock before in the winter. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen - we've had a week where the temperature got only marginally over freezing, and had nights in the low 20s - that's enough to nail you. This last winter was warmer than normal but you never know.....

 

[Traveler 45C]

Ang, your welcome, no problem. Good luck and have fun with that job.

Karl, yea I remember ice skating down the dock a few mornings here...

 

[yachtsmanbill]

AHOY!! While in town here I picked up 10 gallons of CAR QUEST heavy duty anti-freeze. The label says its formulated for heavy duty diesel applications and is low silica/phosphate. For diesels it is to be used with sca's. The only other info was the ASTM ratings of D3306 including D4340 and D4985. On the HATT TRICK we had to drain the system to install a new alternator bracket. The old stuff looked like used beer. MAYBE good for +25F. I am sure the inhibitors were at absolute minimum levels. I will check the other other engine as time permits--12-71Ns. I did replace caps with new 7#s.
On our frame 5 GE gas turbines that were started on VT 903 Cummins we used 50/50 prestone with a conditioner and demineralized water from the steam plant. The coolers and radiators were always near perfect. The units shared a common closed system, about 400 gallons, with the 903s which would give a 5 minute warm up and then on the pins with electric governors for 15 minutes followed by a 10 minute cool down, primarily at MY request for turbo cool down. When I took over they were eating turbos for lunch, and heads for dinner;originally shut down occured immediately following starting cycle. As things turn out 903 heads are (were) a poor design anyway.
BTW, my dad was an EMD test engineer for 30 years, loved Detroits and disliked Cummins immensely. Called them the chrysler of the industry LOL. Guess I 'll hafta get some NALCOOL this week before my trip. WHEW !! ws