Classic Hatteras Values?

[ADOPO]

I'm new here, but not to Hatteras, having owned Hull # 10 1969 Sports Fish. I've done the search, I have access to soldboats.com, etc. My broker friend tells me the old boats in general are hard to sell, but I just happen to like the pre 1980 boats. Nothing looks better to me than that old picture in the early Powerboat guide of the 50ft motoyatch. The 44 tricabin, 50ft, ealy 53, 58, and 70 are beautiful. In fact, I found a 1974 70ft that is perfectly perserved, located at Cable Marine under cover for the last 30 years, asking $450,000. The owner comes over about once year and that's it. I have considered this boat, maybe even putting it in Charter, but that may be a lamebrain idea. I looked at a 44 tricabin in Palm Beach last week, beautiful interier, but the paint was a 20ft job in some regards, and the engines at least looked like they had not been touched, and at least 3 windows were cracked. Asking 145K.

Then I found a boat I like, the 50ft classic from 1968. Ok but not great paint, no curtins aft or up top, older electronics, none on the flybrige, needs updating, solf spots behind the wing doors on the aft deck and maybe in the cabin walls. At least 3,000 hours on the engines. Price $110,000.

Yes, this is a long first post, but please provide your comments. I wonder if it is better to spend more money, and find a boat someone has sunk many thousands in, as it seems that you can expect to get only a small percentage back in return.

 

[Passages]

Go to the search function on the top bar and type in words such as value, refit, condition. You'll find a lot.

The short answer is yes, old classics retain good value. The key is condition. Get the best condition boat your budget will allow. The engine is something where condition matters less AS LONG AS you get a satisifactory deduct to have it repaired to your standards.

 

[Capt.Erich]

The other thing to consider is... yep, they may have sunk a lot of money into her but what have they screwed up in the process? I have seen some strange and pitiful things done to some perfectly good boats. I don't put any credence into how much was spent on a refit or other projects. What matters is the quality of the work. I have seen many owners taken to the cleaners because they didn't educate themselves or have someone to manage the project for them.

IMHO... if you are considering an older boat you had better plan on spending money on new "stuff" anyway. The engines may low hours but the real question should be what maintenance has been done? Good luck in your search.

 

[Freebird]

Hey, Pat Bustle and I looked at "Ocean Motion" at Cable too. Nice boat, like SeaEric pointed out, she'll need a lot of work as she has been updated very little since new. She has sat a lot, and I know from first hand experience, that is not a good thing.

I know for a fact she can be purchased for substantially less than the asking price, but I have come to the conclusion I would rather have a 70CPMY.

Go for it, and I'll race you to bankruptcy court with my 70!

Oh yeah, forget that last sentence, check out my 58TC in Palmetto, FL. I'll make you a heck of a deal. Seriously.

 

[MikeP]

Yes, the critical thing when looking at "upgrades" is the fact that they are in the eye of the beholder. One 53 that we looked at had all the wood in the lower deck covered with mirror. The broker told me the owner spent 50K to "upgrade" the boat that way. We couldn't get off fast enough.

Another had "Brand new Carpeting" It was new and very well done. The trouble was, we hated the color!

So upgrades are only UPGRADES if the buyer likes them. The fact that the sellor likes them is of no value at all.

 

[Genesis]

Exactly.

There are a lot of "upgrades" that are worth exactly nothing to a potential buyer. Same thing with a house - that puke green carpet may have cost you $20,000, but guess how many people other than you think its worth anything at all?

 

[SKYCHENEY]

Most of the previous comments are correct. The buyer will have to decide what they like or dislike. I, for one, looked for quite some time to find a boat that had not been upgraded. I wanted a boat that was as close to original as possible. So far, after 3 years of ownership, I can tell you that the only things that have needed to be replaced or redone were the mistakes of prior owners. The OEM Hatteras work was all done well and has just required normal maintenance.

Don't jump into anything without looking at as many boats as possible. It's a buyers market right now, so you don't have to be in a hurry. Once you know which model you like best, then start to narrow down.

 

[SeaEric]

You've no doubt heard the expression- "Labor of love.." Well, "love" is the operative word there. Buy a boat that you fall in love with and plan on having a long term relationship with. Spend on her what you need to, in sweat or dollars, to make her right, and don't look back.

If you're trying to apply any sort of business sense to the decision to buy a big old classic motoryacht, then go see a shrink. If you can buy with your heart- then go hire a good surveyor. At least then you will know what you've bought. Maybe.

The folks on this forum who seem the most content have owned their boats (or plan to) for a very long time.

 

[Boss Lady]

Expensive passion should be used to describe any boat owner. The only people who make money are the yards and the brokers. We will all lose money, how much depends on how savy you are in buying at the right price and then making good decisions on maintenance and upgrades. Buy it right and you may be able to own it for a few years and then sell without losing money. but do not lie to your self, the price of ownership is high, and if the boat brings pleasure to family and friends it is worth. I spend plenty on golf and other things that is pure expense with nothing to show for it at the end of the day. At least the boat is there in the morning.

 

[Walter P]

Don't even try to "justify" why we own boats at all. The only thing that matters is that we WANT to. Everyone has their own reasons and I refuse to feel guilty because I love my boat, hell I like most boats but particularly our favorites - Hatteras.

Value is mostly perception and I percieve my peace of mind, tranquility and all the other pleasures to be worth every penny that I spend (that's right, spend not invest) on my boat. If a good investment is what you want check out Wall St., it's been a great year. At the end of our cruise in this life if all we can say is "I wish I would have saved more rather than "invest" in my boat, then I think we probably wasted one of the reasons we're here in the first place.

My unsolisited advice is if you want a boat and you can afford to have it - go for it. By all means buy the model that catches your eye and makes your heart flutter a little - then get back to reality and have it checked out by an impartial party, i.e. survey. You can save a lot of time and grief by using a good reputable broker who has plenty of experience with the brand (hopefully a Hatteras) to screen out the dogs and focus on the good ones. I believe SeaEric on this forum is such a person. Remember quality is remembered long after price is forgotten. Another way to say quality is CLASSIC HATTERAS.

Good luck and happy hunting

Walt

 

[Boss Lady]

Well said there Walter!

 

[Pascal]

i look at the value of a classic Hatteras by comparing to a new boat of the same value. How much do you think that new $200k Baycarseasilum will be worth 4 years down the road compared to a $200k 53 classic ?

probably $130... it's a safe bet that the 53, if properly maintained will still be in the high 100s...

the only downside to our boats is the speed, or lack of, when compared to the newer boats. But if cruising at hull speed works for your cruising style and location, the fuel economy makes up for it. My previous boat, a 98 express gasser, used to cost me nearly 3 times more per mile than the 53 !

 

[REBrueckner]

There are many different philosophies. One says "buy a boat, a the right price, with crappy engines then you can rebuild them and KNOW what was done". But if you know the yard/rebuilder, maybe buying a recent rebuild makes a lot more sense.

If the upgrades suit you, such as color chartplotter, dual radars, for example, super. If you don't need,like nor want many of the upgrades, it's likely the wrong boat.

Also, always ask how long the boat has been on the market and how much the price has been reduced so far...and why ity's being sold...all may greatly impact "the deal"...You have nothing to lose from making a low bid nor asking the broker "what's the lowest offer you think the owner will take?"

The market for used boats, I suspect, follows homes, and both seem slow for the past year..at least here in the Northeast.

 

[newinlet]

Been watching this thread and I gotta put my 2 cents worth in....

Old V.S new My 1978 37C 671N power is in overall nice shape updated electronics,hardtop,ez2cy,gen, softgood Ect. It has been very well taken care of all its life Approx 2,100 K hours on Original power. I paid under 120K for this boat. Most expensive upgrades, Gen,hardtop were done before I bought her. I have owned this boat for 4 years. I have spent Approx 6-10K a year on upgrades & repairs.... most of wich upgrades I did not need to do.
I use this boat every weekend to travel mostly Marthas Vinyared from my home port of Marshfield, Ma. About 4.5 Hour trip each. way..The waters around us (Buzzards Bay, Vinyard Sound) can be very rough at times. This boat is very solid & seaworthy, and when I tie up at the dock there is somone always wanting to talk about "My old Hatt".
That being said, A few years ago a buddy of mine bought his 97 48 ft Ocean About 480K purchase Maybe 20K in upgrades in Florida before we brought it up to Mass. not to mention the Cyl head we had to replace in Ga. Once she was home he hauled it had to replace the rotted bow pulipit , A bunch of other stuff including rebuilding the other engine 692- 635 H.P. A total off $100K + on top of original purchase. Just like myself some upgrades needed & some wanted, but mostly needed I/E repairs...
Well I gotta say My old Hat should still be worth what I paid, In fact my buddy has spent as much in upgrades as what I paid for my boat. I dont think he could even get his original purchase price back on what he paid for the boat never mind repairs & upgrades..
My friend or I do not own our boats for money reasons just enjoyment. However I think my Hatt gives me the better bang for the buck, for my family and I love her and do not see us letting her go anytime soon.
Sorry for the long post.. Just my thoughts...

 

[REBrueckner]

Rereading this again, several additional thoughts come to mind:
(1) If you are really looking at a ranges from 70 ft and then found a 50 ft Hatt you like, you need to first decide what size,style,accomodations and most important, what use you will make of the boat. While I agree with almost all the comments here, the first thing is to decide what you want to do with the boat. For example: lots of gunkholing?diving? if so a cockpit is just great. Living aboard in a cold climate during winter? Then maybe an extra interior cabin instead of a cockpit would be more useful. Running 100 hours annually? Then who cares what fuel consumption is..it's a very small part of your annual costs. Running a thousand hours annually? Then fuel consumption (efficiency) may be very important. How many people will be aboard? Generally a bigger boat is more fun but only if you can handle it. If you need crew, for example, even only for moral support, you'll find you may not be able to go out whenever you like.

(2) If you like the look of older boats, go with that preference. That's my preference and you also get better value and less depreciation. I'd never buy an Ocean Yacht because I know of just too many problems with them. But they do have snazzy interior accomodations and styling.

(3) Value is not so easy to determine. A high first cost, for example, could be worth it if the resale down the road is also higher. Trawlers tend this way, like Hatt LRC's, Seatons,Nordhavens, etc. Even Grand Banks, not my favorites by a long shot, seem to hold price fairly well. But in general, used boats like autos don't suffer that incredible early year loss in value of new units.